Holy line of Thunderstorms batman

[inthewind]

Not yet, gotta wait for a good quarter on Wall Street, or some BS like that. If I wasn't waiting for something to happen on that front I'd have quit here a long long time ago.

 

[Vector4fun]

So you go over at 430...which is great. What do you do when you're right over the middle of it and lose one? How fast is the descent? Is it more of a drift down to a suitable SE altitude?

just curious

-mini

Mini,

I was with a buddy riding in the back of a LR-25 when that exact scenario happened, except we were at FL390 as I recall. About two am south of Roswell, NM. Lightning below us. As I recall, we drifted down to about FL 280 and he got it re-lit and immediately climbed back up out of the CB. Had me going for a while... :erm:

 

[Lead Sled]

...coming into DAL this morning, we were preceeded by a corp jet that reported "Severe" turbulence coming down through the descent...do any of you know what "severe" turbulence really is?!?!? We had to correct him and let him know it was only continuous light to occassional moderate, nowhere near severe. Oh well, i guess there are those out there who think even the smallest bump is "severe"...wimps.....:laugh:

It must have been one of those born-again, ex-121, new Corporate pilots.

'Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

Actually, I NEVER, EVER discount reports of severe turbulents from anyone. A couple of months back, we were climbing out of Washington DC deadheading our way to Agusta GA when all freak'n heck broke out. No one had been reporting any real ride "issues" - just the normal stuff - prior to an airliner's call of severe turbulence on climb out. My other crew member and I looked at each other, smiled, and said something along the lines of "what a woose" - bad move. It was our turn next. We got slammed. The airplane was uncontrollable. We unported BOTH engine oil pickups and got low oil annunciations for both engines. It amazing how, when you're in a situation like that, time seems to go by in slow motion so you always have plenty of time to think about the ramifications of a pending dual engine failure in a twin-jet. We weren't in it very long, but it sure got our attention.

'Sled

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Not yet, gotta wait for a good quarter on Wall Street, or some BS like that. If I wasn't waiting for something to happen on that front I'd have quit here a long long time ago.

Good luck to ya. I had a meeting on Monday with a company that got some type of glowing review from my current employer and they want me to in short be chief pilot (what the fk do I know?) for up to 5 pilots and as many company owned Cirrus SR-22GTS aeroplanes. Wanna fly a cirrus :beer:

You'd be based at Port right across the runway from Les Wexner's group parked right under the Columbus Blue Jackets DC9.

 

[starchkr]

Well....apparently my attempt at a little humor and sarcasm had little effect on "most" of you. Maybe everyone missed it in the last sentence of the first paragraph, and then again in the last sentence in the third...maybe you were just too "serious." Hey, live life and have fun, don't hide behind a narrow mind of how things are "supposed" to be.


Mini...it is more of a driftdown to a SE altitude, which would not have been a factor in this situation, since the storms were only a couple miles wide, and if something "had" happened a safe distance could have been attained before desceding through the tops altitude.


Gulfstream...yeah, you're right, after more than five years of continuously doing this stuff, i too consider myself an amateur, but that's cool, at least i am man enough to admit it!

As far as the question if i have ever been in severe turbulence...yep, and can't say i had much fun doing it. Loss of control of the a/c, a/c actually stalling (as it is designed to do, great example of Maneuvering speeds), and things flying around everywhere...all this in the lear. It happens, and no, i wouldn't want to do it again. I have pretty much experienced most things that can be thrown at you in flight, and some of them aren't as bad as thought, but others are actually worse than thought. It all comes with the job, and in my industry, we know things can be taken to certain points, most of the time they are beyond the points where many have gone or are willing to go. None of them are "dangerous" and all of them are by choice...this is in no way bad, it is just a diferent mindset and a willingness to actually get the job done right and on time.

So, there you go everyone, flame away at what you disagree with, and for the others, try to pick out the sarcasm and intended humor...some will find it, but as i have already said, most will not. Oh well, that's how these great boards of ours work, there is no intonation available besides those wonderful little smilies...

 

[avbug]

I have pretty much experienced most things that can be thrown at you in flight, and some of them aren't as bad as thought, but others are actually worse than thought.

Wow, who'da thunk you'd had cracked wings, engine fires, hydraulic failures, brake failures, engine runaways, trim runaways, rapid depressurizations, psychotic passengers, cabin fires, control failures, complete electrical losses, blown tires, steering hardovers, yada, yada, yada...you're one unlucky guy in that Learjet.

So...which ones were worse than you thought?

It all comes with the job, and in my industry, we know things can be taken to certain points, most of the time they are beyond the points where many have gone or are willing to go. None of them are "dangerous" and all of them are by choice...this is in no way bad, it is just a diferent mindset and a willingness to actually get the job done right and on time.

In your industry...that would be the "freight" industry? In the freight industry, you know things can be taken beyond the point where most are willing to go, but it's not dangerous and in no way bad. You're a tough guy. Freight must be a tough business, what with stalling out learjets and all. Luckily what others see as severe, you just shrug off as if it's nothing, water off your back, because you do what no one else does (and from the sound of it, do it better), even taking the trouble to correct those less learned and experienced than yourself, on the radio.

That point to point flying, A to B, sounds really dramatic. The stuff of which legends are made. There I was, flying freight from A to B, when suddenly, I arrived on time! I try not to think of myself as a hero, but some little old lady in outer mongolia got a replacement remote for her television just in time, thanks to us flying all night to get that package to her. It's things like that which make it all worthwhile, it's why we get up in the morning. Of course, the only thing I find more worthwhile is delivering a bunch of cancelled checks.

Learjet flying, that radical, loopy, surprising Lear 35A...sounds like a rodeo. Is it the cutting edge coffin corner flying you do above the certified envelope of the airplane, or the flying through thunderstorms that gives you the biggest rush? How do you get the door open after a flight without bonking the dozens of love starved ravens who flock to your door when they see that Learjet land, knowing it's braved thunderstorms and all manner of flying pestilence to bring in the latest product from Sharper Image on time, or return those desperately needed cancelled checks?

You should write a book. I'd buy it.

I need something to hold up the short leg on the coffee table.

 

[wmuflyguy]

funny how you blast the guy for being arrogant, then act the same way

 

[avbug]

That's not arrogance. That's identifying a very dangerous attitude and calling it out.

Arrogance was correcting another pilots PIREP of severe turbulence. Arrogance was rambling on about having experienced everything, and that everything was no big deal.

Arrogance in identifying that faulty attitude? No.

Flying a learjet isn't supposed to be dramatic. It isn't supposed to be anything but mundane, and from a pilot perspective, one tries very hard to make everything as severely routine as possible. Our star starchecker seems to feel that flying boxes justifies anything, flying through anything, and that it has placed him in a position to have that thousand yard been there done that got the tee shirt stare. Perhaps it does, but if it does, it means he hasn't been doing his job, and has been going places where he ought not.

We're not paid for our outstanding or outlandish flying skills, but for our judgement, which often as not entails us ensuring that the airplane does not go where it should not go.

Be careful of scars earned in battles in which you should never have fought.

 

[minitour]

Mini...it is more of a driftdown to a SE altitude, which would not have been a factor in this situation, since the storms were only a couple miles wide, and if something "had" happened a safe distance could have been attained before desceding through the tops altitude.

So sort of like a piston twin when you lose one at 14000 and your SE Cieling is 7000 you just gradually drift down...cool. Thanks for the info!

-mini

 

[Swass]

Wow, who'da thunk you'd had cracked wings, engine fires, hydraulic failures, brake failures, engine runaways, trim runaways, rapid depressurizations, psychotic passengers, cabin fires, control failures, complete electrical losses, blown tires, steering hardovers, yada, yada, yada...you're one unlucky guy in that Learjet.

So...which ones were worse than you thought?




In your industry...that would be the "freight" industry? In the freight industry, you know things can be taken beyond the point where most are willing to go, but it's not dangerous and in no way bad. You're a tough guy. Freight must be a tough business, what with stalling out learjets and all. Luckily what others see as severe, you just shrug off as if it's nothing, water off your back, because you do what no one else does (and from the sound of it, do it better), even taking the trouble to correct those less learned and experienced than yourself, on the radio.

That point to point flying, A to B, sounds really dramatic. The stuff of which legends are made. There I was, flying freight from A to B, when suddenly, I arrived on time! I try not to think of myself as a hero, but some little old lady in outer mongolia got a replacement remote for her television just in time, thanks to us flying all night to get that package to her. It's things like that which make it all worthwhile, it's why we get up in the morning. Of course, the only thing I find more worthwhile is delivering a bunch of cancelled checks.

Learjet flying, that radical, loopy, surprising Lear 35A...sounds like a rodeo. Is it the cutting edge coffin corner flying you do above the certified envelope of the airplane, or the flying through thunderstorms that gives you the biggest rush? How do you get the door open after a flight without bonking the dozens of love starved ravens who flock to your door when they see that Learjet land, knowing it's braved thunderstorms and all manner of flying pestilence to bring in the latest product from Sharper Image on time, or return those desperately needed cancelled checks?

You should write a book. I'd buy it.

I need something to hold up the short leg on the coffee table.

Man you are a piece of work. You must be doing God's work, or at least you want us to think so.

 

[Lead Sled]

...I have pretty much experienced most things that can be thrown at you in flight, and some of them aren't as bad as thought, but others are actually worse than thought. It all comes with the job, and in my industry, we know things can be taken to certain points, most of the time they are beyond the points where many have gone or are willing to go. None of them are "dangerous" and all of them are by choice...this is in no way bad, it is just a diferent mindset and a willingness to actually get the job done right and on time...

It's amazing to see the differences in attitude between freight/charter guys and honest to goodness Part 91 corporate operations. I flew a Lear 35 coast-to-coast and border-to-border 3 or 4 times a month for 8 years. We'd get to most of the major cities in all of the lower 48 and Canada several times per year - year in and year out, good weather or bad. We were based out of an airport not far from your base at CMH. In all of our flying you can count on one hand (actually just two fingers) the number of weather cancellations we had. One flight was cancelled because of severe thunderstorms in the Chicago area (golf ball size hail and tornadoes) and another due to ice on the airport grounds after a bad ice storm. (We elected to keep it in the hangar, a freight pilot tried it and ended up in a snow bank.)

I think I can safely say that we pretty much ran our Lear "on schedule" and we NEVER had to use a "different mindset" to get the job done and I have never inadvertantly stalled a Lear or done any of those things that you implied required a "different mindset" to do.

I did have the opertunity to jumpseat on one of your airplanes from CMH to SLC and return. A buddy of mine was one of your checkairman (no pun intended) and he arranged it. It was a very "impressive" flight and even though I had the invitation, I never chose to repeat the experience. Hey, I've had my share of fun in airplanes, but there's a time and a place for everything. The 4 crews that I flew with on that trip wouldn't have lasted 30 days in our operation.

'Sled

 

[BushwickBill]

Aaaarrrrg!!!!! Raaararrarrrrrr!!!!! (beating hands on chest)

 

[jknight8907]

Memphis Center reported that a 210 went through it 40 minutes before it reached Memphis, and experienced a 800 fpm updraft and severe turb.

We had a nice hole picked out on radar, but as we sat it awe of the lightning, it closed up very fast.....man did it do some raining!

 

[Superpilot92]

it made for some fun gusty landings. Flew through it twice yesterday. Did take a bit of heading select to make it around and through some holes.

 

[starchkr]

Oh man....Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah...that pretty much sums up avbug's comments, and come on really, could we expect anything less of him. I do enjoy bringing that little old lady her remote though, man she was pretty fired up when she had to come online and read your meaningful posts instead of watching golden girls...i figured heck, bring it to her fast and she might actually not die from laughter right now but from old age later. The best had to be about the ravens flocking to our bird...man if you only knew...you should see them lined up, and we are not talking about the plain jane NE women here, we only get the hot Southern girls...and i know no-one can argue that point. Flying a learjet is supposed to be "mundane"...hmmmm...yeah, almost as mundane as that fully automated computer you fly right?!?! Yeah, that's what we thought, computers do not exist on any of our birds (well, except the JR 60's), so the word mundane does not exist when talking about the learjet (older models at least). By the way, where did i ever say i have experienced breaking airplanes and that crap you listed...the intent was directed towards the topic of the thread, which if you hadn't noticed was weather, not breaking crap. Oh well, again, my point proven about expecting any less...

Sled...i agree, our kind of flying is a little different than what corp 91/121 kind of guys are used to. Things are a little more dramatic and different when you don't have the need to be "smooth for the pax." I don't degrade the flying skills of people who have only flown 91/121, however, it is a well known fact (ok, maybe just a shared belief) among pilots that flying freight has to be one of the best learning experiences one could ever encounter. There is absolutely no replacement for the "skills" (if you wish to call them that) that you attain in this line of business. After saying that however (especially since i can see avbug jumping all over this) ALL of our flying is safe and has been approved by the FAA-both during checks and through the certification of the a/c. You know what the lear can do, and there are many who have never flown one who look upon this as dangerous, but it is all within the limitations of the a/c...go figure, someone on this board bashing someone for being within the limitations...hmmmmmm.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No starcheck, his point was that you came across as a Superhero wrestling around that Learjet through any weather beacuse "its a well known fact" what flying freight teaches you...like its something noble or special...like it gives you an edge over other guys. The only welll known fact I know of is that doing that $hit too long teaches you bad habits.

Maybe it was simply misunderstood...but it is very ametuer and not an attitude desireable outside of anything but night freight in Learjets...probably not your career goal. Being a cowboy simply is not cool anymore I guess.

again, probably just misunderstood. We certainly know you are not the first guy to fly and old POS learjet at night.

 

[inthewind]

Why is it that every single thread on here turns into a pi$$ing match? Mine's bigger, I can fly circles around you....etc,etc.. A freaking monkey can fly an airplane, they pay us to say NO. It's all about headwork folks, analyze the situation, come up with a SAFE solution and then execute it. That's the only reason they haven't trained a monkey to do this job.

 

[starchkr]

But i am a superhero, i have been mistaken for superman a few times, heck, i guess i am just that good looking. Cowboy up...oh wait, i can't stand the cowboys, but hey, whatever it takes...

Mine is bigger actually...and i can still fly circles around ya. Pissing contests...well welcome to the world of aviation, an industry led by men(no offense to women, but i had to put it in context for the rest of this statement) who have nothing better to do than cut eachothers throats and try to have these WONDERFUL debates over crap that some don't understand. Oh well, we all can't be blessed like the freight dogs, i mean heck, we are just dogs after all.

 

[Lead Sled]

Why is it that every single thread on here turns into a pi$$ing match? Mine's bigger, I can fly circles around you....etc,etc.. A freaking monkey can fly an airplane, they pay us to say NO. It's all about headwork folks, analyze the situation, come up with a SAFE solution and then execute it. That's the only reason they haven't trained a monkey to do this job.

I guess it's part of the nature of the beast. It takes a certain amount of ego to be able to strap yourself into the pointy end of an aluminum tube and launch yourself and the family jewels down range. I've got no problems with that, I'm probably just as guilty as the next guy.

As far as freight pilots having some sort of superior skills or abilities and higher levels of experience - like I said, I rode with 4 different crews 2/3's of the way across the country and back. What I was saw wasn't particularly skillful - it was sloppyness. The only reason they got a way with some of the stuff they did was because it was three freak'n A.M. in the morning and absolutley no one cared what they were doing. It's probably a good thing that boxes can't complain.

'Sled