Holly blast from the ALPA (scope) Past

[FDJ2]

Yeah, I should have a copy of that "provsion" lying around here somewhere ... oh wait, it never existed.

Ask your MEC chairman about it, he refused to even discuss it when DALPA offered to work on a flow through.

 

[surplus1]

Ask your MEC chairman about it, he refused to even discuss it when DALPA offered to work on a flow through.

FDJ2,

Once again your information is NOT accurate. I'm sure you believe that it is and I do not doubt that is what your MEC told you. They have NOT told you the whole truth.

Before too long the real truth of what your MEC was and is doing behind the scenes will be revealed If the current litigation ever gets to open court (ALPA will probably "settle" to avoid it). A lot of people are going to get a lot of "egg" on their face once the actions and intent of the Delta MEC and ALPA (with respect to ASA and Comair) are publicly revealed. I predict your awakening will be a rude one once you have seen "the emporer" without his clothes.

Even Comiar pilots (and maybe ASA too) will be quite surprised when they learn the details of what their MEC is NOT telling them about its current "deal making" with your MEC. When that canary flies into the fan there will be weaping and nashing of teeth.

Just be patient. Sooner or later the dirty linen will be hung out to dry. If you think Sadam Hussein was a dirty double dealer, wait 'till you learn what ALPA and your MEC have been doing in secret. The time is coming.

 

[wms]

de ja vous all over again

 

[pianoman]

There was a strong amount of support for a single seniority list at then CoEx and CAL, however there was an equal amount of opposition.

What people don't realize, though, is that even had both sides of the fence agreed on it at the union level, that means absolutely nothing if the company isn't interested. Unfortunately not too many people are willing to strike over a long-sighted idea like that.

Pity. We had a window of opportunity to get scope together at CAL but it's closed now.

 

[michael707767]

I am going to have to go with Caveman on this one. There were a few, very few senior guys that were demanding a DOH integration with mainline. And that is from ASA and Comair.

Interesting that you admit there were some senior guys who were demanding DOH. I freely admit, the vast majority of the ASA/CMR pilots would not have pushed for DOH during the PID. The problem was you had a few guys running around shooting their mouth off about how they were going to get DOH and be flying a 767. They ruined the whole deal.

 

[Andy Neill]

ALPC: Scope seems to be becoming a hot topic during airline contract negations. Would you share some of your views on the scope issue?

Babbitt: The difficulty arose probably from some shortsightedness during the early days of deregulation. I say shortsightedness — I blame us, ALPA, as much as anybody, myself included. I was a member of a negotiating team at the time and the carriers came to us and said, "Look, you know we're deregulated and we are going to sell those Convairs, those Electras, DC-7s or whatever, simply because they are not profitable anymore. We're not going to fly into small cities anymore, but you wouldn't mind if PBA or some other commuter did it, would you?" We said, "No, as long as you respect our scope clause, we'll give you permission." In retrospect, with the incredible clarity that 20 years of hindsight will bring, we should have said, "Yes, we care, it's our plan. If the company wants to buy some Beech 99s or F-27s, we'll fly them. We'll put a section in our contract. Set up a division and have a system similar to a farm team. But, one seniority list." Sure, we might have had to change some work rules, but that's been going on for a long time, too. We have international rules and now we have shuttle rules with some carriers. We could have had regional rules. That's where the problem was hatched.

Had this been done, I would expect that farm team to have been an ever growing percentage of the seniority list. As the cost structure for the larger equipment became ever more non-competitive for the lower density routes, more and more of the business would have been done by the farm team. The big difference between that scenario and what we have would have been the inability of the major to whipsaw multiple farm teams or external carriers. I still see the farm team flying routes that mainline guys would now consider rightly in the colors of mainline due to the efficiency of the farm team on that route/frequency combination.

 

[crj567]

GL,

Please reference any document, e-mail, press release, letter, or anything else from an elected CMR or ASA representative that asks for a DOH merger. Also please reference anything from an elected DAL rep offering a staple. I can't seem to find anything. I was wondering where you got your info.

I know that our written request for a PID was denied but I wasn't aware that any merger negotiations had ever taken place. When did we officially request a DOH merger? When did you guys officially offer a staple? I must have missed that......

-Fact means NOTHING to the Gen... Why bother with it? Fact will just make his little head hurt.

 

[doh]

One of the things that gets lost in this whole debate is the fact that if the flying had been kept in house, there would be no need to merge lists. The airlines would have hired into those positions and work rules. Pilots would simply have gone up the list in seniority order. ALPA created a beast that they must now tame with merger, or live with as a permanent loss of bargaining power.

 

[Andy Neill]

Ok, I give up...

Who'se Holly?

Mutiple Choice Quiz Time:

Holly was used in the title bacause:
a. OOPs. He meant Holy Blast To The Past using Robin (of Batman fame) type language.
b. It was a reference to Buddy Holly who died in his prime as a rocker in a light twin crash along with Richie Valenz and the Big Bopper. He chose Holly because the name invokes nostalgia even though his demise was decades before the article was written and the vehicle of his death was Holly's only connection with aviation.
c. To do otherwise would be just what they were expecting.
d. None of the above.

 

[JumpersAway]

With regards to Fins and ACL- it is apparent to me that there may be hope for the future. The more regional guys that end up at mainline, the more they will help close the gap and actually accomplish the unthinkable...........pilot unity between groups (regional and legacy).

 

[Scope out RJ's]

FDJ2,

Once again your information is NOT accurate. I'm sure you believe that it is and I do not doubt that is what your MEC told you. They have NOT told you the whole truth.

This coming from a group of pilots, himself included, and an MEC in particular, who have been caught in lies, under oath!

Before too long the real truth of what your MEC was and is doing behind the scenes will be revealed If the current litigation ever gets to open court (ALPA will probably "settle" to avoid it). A lot of people are going to get a lot of "egg" on their face once the actions and intent of the Delta MEC and ALPA (with respect to ASA and Comair) are publicly revealed. I predict your awakening will be a rude one once you have seen "the emporer" without his clothes.

I'm sure you'd love to see any "man without his clothes."
Facts are, you guys tried a seniority snag, and it bit you in the ass. You didn't get that 767 captain slot you were promised, and now you're a retired old man living in the past of "what could have been." Sucks to be you!

Even Comiar pilots (and maybe ASA too) will be quite surprised when they learn the details of what their MEC is NOT telling them about its current "deal making" with your MEC. When that canary flies into the fan there will be weaping and nashing of teeth.

The comair pilots will be even more surprised to learn how they've been lied to and misrepresented by their leadership for years. Only difference, you're an outisder now!

Just be patient. Sooner or later the dirty linen will be hung out to dry. If you think Sadam Hussein was a dirty double dealer, wait 'till you learn what ALPA and your MEC have been doing in secret. The time is coming.

So is your next enema! Get back to shuffle board and bingo gramps. Your drivel is less amusing since you've hit AARP status!