Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Holding out

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Pilot124

170 Driver
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Posts
397
I am in a flying club and have partial ownership of the plane. I have my commercial and my CFI. I was recently approached by a friend asking If I can give her flight lessons to get her private pilots lic. Would I be holding out because its my plane? Is it legal since I am not taking her from point A to B??? I just was asked tonight and I do not have access to any info where I am at currently staying. Any info would be helpful..Thanks
 
It's perfectly legal

The term 'holding out' means you're offering a service to the general public.

I guess it's as if you're "holding yourself out to be patronized."

I don't know but that's how I think of it.

I don't see anything wrong with charging for instruction in your plane.

If you're were to take out an ad and offer scheduled or charter services, well then, that's a horse of a different color.

By the way, Jeppesen publishes some very good books about understanding the FARs. They provide some interesting case studies to help you grasp the different concepts. There are also some real good aviation management books that I'm sure you can find online at Amazon and the like.

Good luck.
 
Pilot124 said:
I am in a flying club and have partial ownership of the plane. I have my commercial and my CFI. I was recently approached by a friend asking If I can give her flight lessons to get her private pilots lic. Would I be holding out because its my plane? Is it legal since I am not taking her from point A to B??? I just was asked tonight and I do not have access to any info where I am at currently staying. Any info would be helpful..Thanks

Why not get your friend to join the flying club? I'm a member of a flying club too. The issue is moot as long as my trainee is a member of the club.
 
Pilot124,

Of course you can hold out. If you want any business as a flight instructor, or work as a commercially certificated pilot, you realy need to hold out.

Holding out is nothing more than advertising your services. It can be by any means. Word of mouth is holding out. Giving out business cards, passing out flyers, putting an add in the paper, making a banner, all means of holding out.

What you can't do is hold out a willingness to transport persons or property for compensation from one point to another, without a Part 135 Operating Certificate.

Outside of that, you can advertise yourself as an available commercial pilot, and you can certainly advertise yourself for flight instruction.

Now it should be noted that you can be hired for flight instruction and may land at a point other than the point of departure. However, you cannot be hired to fly someone to a point other than the point of departure, if your'e holding out as a transportation service. Providing instuction is fine, selling transportation is not.

You can hold out as a pilot willing to fly people to other destinations in their own aircraft, or aircraft they arrange/provide...but not in aircraft you provide. The intent is to prevent just anybody from setting up their own defacto airline or charter service, without the full oversight of the FAA Administrator.

You can provide the flight instruction, and during the course of the flight instruction you will be landing at other airports than the point of departure. This is legal.

Where the issue of legality would be blurred would be if someone approached you and said, "I hear on the street that you'll fly me and my cat to Hangtown for two hundred dollars if we just call it flight instruction." It would become illegal when you accept and conduct the flight. It's an area where folks have tried to skirt the charter regulation for years by justifying an illegal charter as instruction, forgetting that the FAA is just as interested in the intent and purpose of the flight as the semantics.

If you're providing genuine instruction, you're in great shape. If you're holding out for transportation and calling it instruction, not. If you're not providing the airplane, but are simply providing pilot services on a nonpublic level (Cindy-Lou Freebush wants you to fly her to Dogville in her Twin Bonanza), you can do it. If you're providing the airplane (Cindy-Lou Freebush wants you to fly her to Dogville in your Twin Bonanza, for five hundred bucks), you cannot.
 
AVBUG.....Thanks alot, very well said. What you can't do is hold out a willingness to transport persons or property for compensation from one point to another, without a Part 135 Operating Certificate. Thats what I was really wondering. This would be honest instructing and of course I would have to go to another airport but as an instructor. AVBUG I was hoping you would respond with you insight. Thanks again
 
Pilot124 said:
STARCHKR....I agree with the third date (Holding Out) But you only have it half right..If the sister is willing to step in and take care of it is it still holding out? :http://www.yjd40.dial.pipex.com/mastercard.html
Explains it perfectly.......VERY FUNNY TOO!!!!!
OMG way to funny.
People are wondering why I am laughing!!!
 

Latest resources

Back
Top