High Performance Endorsement????

[fly26]

One of my instructor pals was asking me the following question and I can't remember from my CFI days to give him a good answer. Looking for assistance......

Do you need a High Performance Endorsement if you are a commercial CFI/CFII to fly a high performance aircraft? Or, once you get your commercial rating is it not necessary to have that endorsement?

Thanks.

 

[Buzo]

You must have the endorsement, unless you logged time in an HP plane before august 97. You cannot act as PIC unless you have them and as a CFI you are PIC.

 

[bobbysamd]

High Performance Endorsement

To become a CFI you must already be a Commercial pilot. To become a Commercial pilot you must have a high-performance endorsement. Therefore, yes, you must have a high-performance endorsement to act as PIC in the aircraft.

Years ago, the high-performance endorsement included airplanes with more than 200 hp and/or retractable gear, flaps and controllable prop. When I got my Commercial, which was in 1984, everyone called high-performance airplanes "complex" airplanes. That, technically, was incorrect in those days. Now, you need a "complex airplane" endorsement.

Probably this was a more detailed answer than you really needed, but I hope it helps.

 

[Buzo]

You actually do not need an HP endorsement for the commercial, only a complex endorsement.

 

[DC9stick]

FAR 61.31 (f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower), unless the person has --

(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in a high-performance airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a high-performance airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane; and

(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a high-performance airplane.

(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (f)(1) of this section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a high-performance airplane prior to August 4, 1997.

FAR 61.129 (a) (ii) ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;

A commercial pilot does not need a high performance endorsement.

 

[pa34driver]

Another instructor asked me yesterday:
Could a private pilot that did not have a high performance endorsement be a safety pilot?
Then how would they log it?
Any resoponse would be great.

 

[avbug]

FAR 91.109 sets the requirement for a safety pilot, and requires that the safety pilot hold category and class ratings for the aircraft to be flown. There is no requirement for any endorsement, as an endorsement is not a rating.

The safety pilot must hold the appropriate endorsement if acting as pilot in command. Often the safety pilot is designated as PIC, in order for both pilots to log the time as pilot in command. In such a case, when acting as PIC, the safety pilot needs to have category and class ratings, as well as appropriate endorsements (high performance, complex, tailwheel, high-altitude, etc) according to the aircraft flown, the conditions in which the flight will operate, etc. A safety pilot acting as PIC must also be current in accordance with FAR 61.56 (flight review) and 61.57 (recent flight expeience; landings, night, instrument, etc). Additionally, if the safety pilot will be acting as PIC in instrument conditions, then the safety pilot must have an instrument rating.

If the safety pilot is not acting as PIC, he or she is not bound by the constraints of 61.31(f)(1), which sets the requirement for the high performance endorsement.

How may a pilot obtain a high performance endorsement? 61.31(f) requires that the applicant obtain ground and flight training from an authorized instructor and upon being found proficient in the operation of high performance airplanes, receive a one-time logbook endorsement certifying that the applicant is proficient to operate a high performance airplane.

As far as logging goes, it makes no difference if the pilot has an endorsement. Obviously if the pilot does not have the endorsement, the pilot may not act as pilot in command. In such a case, the time must be logged as SIC, unless at some time the safety pilot becomes sole manipulator of the controls. In such a case, a pilot may log PIC time regardless of weather he or she holds the endorsement. This is because to log time as PIC, one must be rated in the airplane, and as stated previously, an endorsement is not a rating.