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Hey North Atlantic Ferry Pilots: Satellite Phone instead of an HF Radio?

timeless

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I might be involved in a North Atlantic Ferry flight Soon. I've been told that a Satellite phone can replace the requirement to have an HF radio. I just can't find a publication that confirms that.

I have a copy of the North Atlantic International General Aviation Ops Manual. Satellite phone or SATCOM isn't mentioned once (I used the search function in a PDF file). The quote below is the only rule I could find about needing an HF radio, but it doesn't say anything about substituting a sat phone. I'll be in a single piston A/C so FL250 isn't an option and I don't feel like flying half way up Greenland if I don't need to.

(from the required equipment section)
"High Frequency Radio.

An HF radio capable of transmitting and receiving on a minimum of two
appropriate international air-ground general purpose frequencies.
NOTE-
[1] The route Iqaluit - Sondre Stromfjord - Keflavik - ALDAN - 61N 10W - Benbecula is
approved for non-HF equipped aircraft..
[2] Aircraft may proceed across the Atlantic without HF radio at FL250 or above on the route
Goose Bay - Prins Christian Sund (or Narsarsuaq) - Keflavik - ALDAN - 61N 10W -
Benbecula. Operations in MNPS airspace (FL 285 to 420) is not allowed unless specific
MNPS authority is held."

Any clarification on this issue would be helpful.
 

NW_Pilot

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It is an approved com device notification on your flight plan is required.

Block 10 Equipment (Z)

Block 18

Before Your List of ADIZ, FIR And Fix EET's

COM/ Sat Phone +8816 XXXX XXXX
REG/NXXXXX
OPR/ Who Pays The Bill For The Flight And Expensive Phone Calls To You.
PER/ Tanked Over Gross Slow Climb
RMK/ Low Altitude No HF Coverage
DOF/ YYMMDD
RMK/ Sat Phone +8816 XXXX XXXX
RMK/ Changes Prior To DOF Call (Your Cell Or Land Number)

If they have an issue with you not having HF they will call you and tell you to delay an hour or two

Also, On Departure Prior to obtaining your oceanic clearance let them know again you are Negative HF give the sat phone number ask for a test call usually they will instruct you to call New York or Gander to get the Oceanic Clearance.

You should always monitor 121.5 and 123.45 some times they will ask another aircraft to tell you to call them or give you a clearance limit.

The only place that will not let you use sat phone on departure is Shanwick Oceanic for arrivals usualy works good if you can understand the controler but you will report ops normal every 15-60 min gets expensive in a hurry.

Numbers Program Them In to Your Sat Phone,

Gander Oceanic, +1-709-651-5328
New York Oceanic, +1-631-244-2492 & 2493
New York Center North Atlantic Supervisor: +1-631-468-1496
Santa Maria, 011 351296866655
Santa Maria, #2 011 351296820401
Pacific SFO/OAK/ANC, +1-925-371-3920
Sonderstrom, Get Number in Use Assigned VHF
 
Last edited:

NW_Pilot

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Oh!! What ya flying?

Gander will authorize you to go goose bay to BGBW and BGPT NO HF relay on 123.45

Just RMK/ NO HF

Sonderstrom usually will let you relay to Iceland also.

This flight was done sat com only... airinc notam 04/2008 authorizing sat phone across pacific.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N993AD

sat phone is way better than HF be sure to always answer the phone with your registration.
 
Last edited:

timeless

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Thanks for the input. I might be piloting the a second Cessna 172 for a guy that needs to get two of them across the Atlantic. I haven't flown a 172 in 3 years and I've never crossed the Atlantic, but if I can figure out how to do it will be a nice way to make a few bucks and have a some beers in some interesting places. I just have to make sure I keep myself and my certificate safe in the process.
 

NW_Pilot

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Thanks for the input. I might be piloting the a second Cessna 172 for a guy that needs to get two of them across the Atlantic. I haven't flown a 172 in 3 years and I've never crossed the Atlantic, but if I can figure out how to do it will be a nice way to make a few bucks and have a some beers in some interesting places. I just have to make sure I keep myself and my certificate safe in the process.


Icky time of year to be crossing.... Atlantic.
 

timeless

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I finally found a NAT publication that references SATCOM.

http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/MNPSA/MNPSA_2008.pdf

It says that SATCOM is in the trial stage and that GA aircraft can register ahead of time to participate in the program, but I couldn't find anything about the program on the linked website. From your experience it would seem that they have been allowing it for a while, but they just haven't published it anywhere yet.

I'd like to go Goose Bay, BGBW, BIRK and then somewhere in Scotland. Have you ever flown a route comparable to that with out an HF radio? I don't want to get stuck halfway to Europe because I don't have an HF radio. Also when using a Sat Phone to make position reports, were you calling the ATC facility directly or just the same facility that does the HF relay?

Are you a full time ferry pilot or do you just do it when you can?
 

NW_Pilot

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Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Posts
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I finally found a NAT publication that references SATCOM.

http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/MNPSA/MNPSA_2008.pdf

It says that SATCOM is in the trial stage and that GA aircraft can register ahead of time to participate in the program, but I couldn't find anything about the program on the linked website. From your experience it would seem that they have been allowing it for a while, but they just haven't published it anywhere yet.

I'd like to go Goose Bay, BGBW, BIRK and then somewhere in Scotland. Have you ever flown a route comparable to that with out an HF radio? I don't want to get stuck halfway to Europe because I don't have an HF radio. Also when using a Sat Phone to make position reports, were you calling the ATC facility directly or just the same facility that does the HF relay?

Are you a full time ferry pilot or do you just do it when you can?


Gander and Sonderstrom will let you do that route without HF or Satcom use relays on 123.45 till about 50W just write in RMK/ NO HF Request Relay 123.45 on your flight plan. On initial contact confirm NO HF and use relays it's simple.

You will Not land BGBW you need to file South below the mountians, I like BIKF as it's 24 hours operations handler iceland air good price on avgas and hotel discount near food beer's $10+ each bring your own.

I am a full time ferry pilot currently preping a Seneca V for a run to the philipines and a 182 to Madrid then a Few 172's to the Middle East.

This time of year is not the best time to be learning to cross the north atlantic escecially in a 172 ius it new or old 172? In a Newer 172 You should be tanked with 124 Gallons of fuel watch the turbulance and ice along that route when overgross. Where is this 172 going?
 

NW_Pilot

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If you do take it to Saudi standard route to Saudi is.

KBGR, CYYT, LPAZ, LEVC, LMML, HELX, Destination....

All them stops have Avgas and reasonable fees.

KBGR, You will need a General Deceleration on Yellow Paper and a Sellers Export Deceleration Electronic Filing Number & U.S. Customs Clarence.

Make sure you have your Canadian Validation or they will fine you $5k you should file 2 flight plans 1 FAA 1 With Halifax CYYT to LPAZ 1 hour spacings on log/lat. Depart KBGR Noon no need to stay over night CYYT unless weather gets ya cheaper to wait it out KBGR then CYYT.

CYYT shell aerocenter only one that has Avgas and free beer hahahaha... Gas up and go takes about 2 hours.

LPAZ, You should arrive in LPAZ about 09-11am local remember Cash only for fuel and fees.... Customs and immigration is cake walk no hassles like here at home. Stay at the downtown hotel 52 Euro very close to food stores, banks, etc. Usually I make this stop 2 days 1 for rest and the other for permit's.

In a 172 Depart LPAZ on a Z flight plan Activate IFR at Oceanic FIR if you file (I) you will get many rejections from euro control. Also use IFPS Reroute Accepted.

On the LPAZ stop arrange Africa Landing Permit HELX use AN Aviation +20952281591 Fax +20952373100. Response fax Number your Handler of choice in LEVC and your e-mail. You Must Fax AN aviation all the info in the AIP for the permit.

Have your client in Saudi arrange the permit for overflight and landing for you. This will save you some coin on agent fees and time for obtaining the permit.

LEVC (Spain) Be Sure to Have Insurance to EU requirements 50% chance they will ask for it or not when you pay your departure tax. Call for handling 24 hours in advance and also about 2 hours out. You have to taxi about 4 miles for avgas from GA parking there is no truck and credit cards are ok, do it the night before before you meet with your handler. Your handler will have prearranged a hotel about 70 euro. Recommend you bring your own food from LPAZ as close hotels have very little options for the over priced junk food.

LMML, Same as Spain but have avgas truck and mandatory Insurance use sierra aviation request room 100 Euro or less or they will stick you in 300 euro a night room fuel up the night before.

Next leg... Have fun with your flight planing allow 2 to 3 hours if it's your first time to HELX hehehe... euro control is a pain especially if your a 172 and Africa will assign you a route to HELX upon entering the their FIR.

The handler to use in HELX is AN Aviation +20952281591 Fax +20952373100

Call AN Aviation 24 hours of your arrival remember your permit is valid for 3 days from proposed DOF Call them again 3 hours prior to your arrival. Africa is corrupt!!! Upon arrival verify handler name if not AN aviation tell them no and keep telling them no wait for AN Aviation and chock your own wheels.

Have cash min $2,000 (don't flash it) for handling and departure fees + Fuel @ about $17.80 a gallon last time I was there.

Everything at the airport is Cash Only and US Dollar no Euro ask AN Aviation before departing KBGR about fuel costs then add $1.00 per gallon to be safe.

Dress like you have no money.... Bring a 20 pack of black ink pens & lots of bottled water. Warning!! Fuel up before you depart allow 2.5 hours min for fueling and bribes use a filter and pump it yourself or they will expect a large tip if they do it for you. Flight planning the night before you depart.

Whenever you sign something let them keep the pen it will give you bonus points.

Immediately upon departure they will want your EET's again if your not ready expect a long hold, there are no short cuts you must use airway's.

Upon entering Saudi they will also want your EET and permit number, possibly a statement you are not coming from Israel airspace and your route you took from Egypt.

Land. Wait for handler or your client be polite show respect.

This is a general overview of a trip to middle east not as easy as it sounds.
 

727C47

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Good on you, i ferried a DC3 across the pacific a while back, all the way to BKK, always wanted to fly the atlantic,but just to europa,no middle eastern,or african aspirations !
 
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