Hey Capt, when is it going to be like it was? You know, the repsect and pay?

[gear_guy]

Does anyone remember when all the passengers wore a tie or dress? I remember as a child my mom forcing me to wear my Sunday best to fly. Now shorts and a t-shirt is commonplace. If you go to church on Sunday you will see that hardly anybody wears a tie anymore. I think it is just the norm for our society. Even though I hated getting dressed up to fly as a child, there was something different about your experience. Aviation as a whole has certainly changed. Just look at the pitiful service provided by most airlines now. I think those days are gone forever. When in a cattle car, do as the cattle.

 

[Ty Webb]

Rez O. Lushin:

I suspect that maybe your FO's are wearing their Ipods partly because it saves them from having to deal with someone who they are having a hard time relating to . . . . Not trying to be insulting, but I'll bet they lose 'em if they find they are paired with someone they'd rather be talking to than not.

Backpacks, to me, look ridiculous, juvenile and unprofessional. So are any shoes that stick out like a sore thumb. Ditto for the croakies and rainbow-colored Gargoyle type shades. Black Oakleys? Sharp. . . . . . . Ray-Ban 68mm Teardrop Aviators? "Ahoy, there, General, when's the retirement party?".

Hats, to me, are a little outdated. I wear my when I have to, carry it at other times, and that is between me and the Chief Pilot. I sure wouldn't appreciate a Captain or other Line Pilot making a determination of which one I should be doing.

For those of you who hang your professionalism on "the hat", let me tell you who still wears a hat:

1) The Maytag Repairman
2) The Skycaps
3) Ralph Kramden and other bus drivers


Any, Rez, choose your battles, be a mentor, not a control freak, and I'm betting that your FO's will be willing to meet you halfway . . . or even more.

 

[MW44]

Rez,

I still don't get what an Ipod has to do with anything? Do cell phones bother you? What about guys who use palm pilots to record their times, play solitaire, etc? Is that equally bothersome or do you just have something against Apple products in the cockpit?

 

[sky37d]

When in a cattle car, do as the cattle.

The point is, at least from my perspective, that as pilots, we are not cattle. There are 200 bazillion people in this country and 600,000 pilots. That makes a pilot a 1 in 300 zillion person. I tell people that anyone can fly an airplane, and the airplane makers have done things to permit that, but landing one is still like pulling your car into the garage at 100 MPH. It takes skill.

Just ask the Duke.

So, if you want people to have confidence that you know your stuff, you don't look like the average passenger. I to remember when passengers wore suits and dresses, and F/A's were all female, and all FOXES!!!, but those days are passed. I hope the day has not passed when professionals, in any profession, don't get dressed up in public. Can you imagine The Donald in jeans at a board meeting?
Can you imagine getting on a plane where the Capt and F/O are wearing jeans? As for the IPOD, I would say, look, got nothing to do, here's some things to do, and put that crap away until you are out of my sight.

 

[MW44]

"As for the IPOD, I would say, look, got nothing to do, here's some things to do, and put that crap away until you are out of my sight." Sky37d

Are you an airline pilot? You sound a little stiff around the collar. I don't know about you but virtually every line pilot I fly with finds something to occupy themselves during the little breaks that occur during boarding, de-boarding, waiting on fuel, etc.

I've seen guys read the paper, a book, a magazine, even the Bible, BS with the FA, tell jokes, play solitaire on thier palm pilot, listen to music on a mp3 player, etc., etc. Your comment makes it hard to believe that you've routinely worked your way through 14 hour duty days. You would have to be some kind of a robot or aviation super-geek to exclusively read work related material during a month of line flying. Maybe sterile cockpit starts and ends in the crew van with you, I don't know, but most of us need a little diversion from time to time when the work load is low.

 

[MW44]

Next time the guy I'm flying with pulls out a paper/Ipod/book maybe I'll throw a FAR/Aim at him and say "Hey you got nothing to do, here why don't you study up on light gun signals." That will probably go over real well...

 

[Twotter76]

Ahh yes another one of my favorite pet peeves - the hatless masses. My company has a hat policy - though it is not enforced and I would say that fully half of my fellow pilots choose not to wear the hat. I personally will NEVER be within sight of the public without a proper uniform. Why? Not only because it is in my FOM that I should do so, but because I am a professional. While the respect from passengers is nice (perhaps if you wore a hat instead of a backpack you might see it more often?), I do it for myself. When I was growing up I always saw the pilots at airport in the clean uniforms, shiny shoes, starched shirts (do half of you even know what starch is?) and ALWAYS with the hat on. I WANTED to wear that hat and I am honored that I am now in a position to do so.

Backpacks and tennis shoes are for teenagers or days when you are not working. As other posters eloquently pointed out you never see other PROFESSIONALS (see there's that word again) wearing either of those at work. I cringe every time I see my fellow pilot wearing tennies and a jansport walking down the hall - but it is not my place to go up to them and tell them what to wear. I would hope that most of us have enough self respect to want to look like the professionals that we all are. Sunglasses I do not care about because we are rarely seen wearing them in view of the public so whatever floats your boat I suppose. As to the Ipods I am not going to touch that one. Why is it that we all bitch and moan endlessly about wanting to be paid as professionals and yet so few of us are willing to act like them? As always be continue to be our own worst enemy.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Can someone tell what the he!! a Ipod is? Im 18 and I thought I would be up todate on this kinda stuff.

 

[FN FAL]

The point is, at least from my perspective, that as pilots, we are not cattle. There are 200 bazillion people in this country and 600,000 pilots. That makes a pilot a 1 in 300 zillion person. I tell people that anyone can fly an airplane, and the airplane makers have done things to permit that, but landing one is still like pulling your car into the garage at 100 MPH. It takes skill.

No, there isn't 200 bazillion people in the US, so that stat is a little skewed.

And as far as the correlation of flying to driving, keep this in mind...they already have automated and autonomous flight of aircraft. They have yet been able to do so with on or off road motor vehicles. This year's DARPA autonomous vehicle competition ended without anyone winning the one million dollar prize. The prize has been raised to two million dollars.

 

[MW44]

It's an Mp3 player. Plays music downloaded from your computer. About the size of a small cell phone. Apparently some people are offended by them. I think they're great. Good way to kill time when you're bored out of your mind.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>Can someone tell what the he!! a Ipod is? Im 18 and I thought I would be up todate on this kinda stuff.<<<

Gentlemen, we have stumbled upon the only 18 year old in existence who doesn't know what an iPod is.

 

[Snakum]

Jesus ... I'm so old I fart dust, and even I know what an IPod is.


Minh

"These d@mn young'unz today .... "

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Toys for boys..



I’ve got a MP3 player (32 MB) on my cell phone! How about that.. http://www.nokia.nl/uk/phones/PhoneModels/6230/index.html

By the way, I agree with ATR and Otter..

FD

 

[atrdriver]

When I was growing up I always saw the pilots at airport in the clean uniforms, shiny shoes, starched shirts (do half of you even know what starch is?) and ALWAYS with the hat on. I WANTED to wear that hat and I am honored that I am now in a position to do so.

I agree 100%. I wanted to be an airline pilot since I was 5 years old, and part of that image was the uniform, including the hat. When I'm in view of the public, except in the cockpit, I always wear the uniform, as correctly as I can. Out of the view of the public I will loosen my tie, unbutton the top button of the shirt, and wear an iPod, but when the people who are paying my salary and expect me to be a professional can see me, I was to look the part.

atrdriver

 

[Flyin Tony]

LOL I had no idea what they are. Thanks for letting me know. As you can see I dont do much just ride my dirtbike and fly the comanche.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

REZ clarifies the Ipod issue

Gents,

I am under the impression that fellow pilots are wanting to play thier Ipods during sterile cockpit and/or cruise. If so, I gotta say, no way...

Also, I'd be reluctant to show the imgae of a pro pilot wearing the Ipod in the terminal. Just not the right image. Same reason why a pro pilot wouldn't look right reading a copy of Playboy, PH or Huslter in the terminal.

It is all about image. What you can get your pay check providers, the passengers, to believe....

Act like you are worth 100K, 200K or even 300K and it will be easier to negotiate that rate.

Act like your you don't care, whatever, yadda, yadda and that's what your hourly rate will be...whatever, and yadda yadda......

Just my opinon.........

 

[gear_guy]

So, if you want people to have confidence that you know your stuff, you don't look like the average passenger.

You mean I am being judged on how much "stuff" I know by whether or not I wear headphones? What about the fat a$$ captain walkin around the terminal with an ice cream cone dripping down their chin? Puuuleeese! Have you ever watched "COPS" on tv and seen those fat guys tryin to chase down criminals. It reminds me of a day at the local airport. I think most of the people talking about uniform etiqutte should consider what they look like in the mirror. I'd rather have someone with an ipod than a perfectly dressed out of shape pilot any day. Just my opinion as a passenger.

 

[PCL_128]

I am under the impression that fellow pilots are wanting to play thier Ipods during sterile cockpit and/or cruise. If so, I gotta say, no way...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't really see a problem with listening to the Ipod during cruise. What exactly is it that bothers you about that? You've got to do something to occupy yourself for a few hours.

 

[FN FAL]

Gents,

I am under the impression that fellow pilots are wanting to play thier Ipods during sterile cockpit and/or cruise. If so, I gotta say, no way...

Also, I'd be reluctant to show the imgae of a pro pilot wearing the Ipod in the terminal. Just not the right image. Same reason why a pro pilot wouldn't look right reading a copy of Playboy, PH or Huslter in the terminal.

It is all about image. What you can get your pay check providers, the passengers, to believe....

Act like you are worth 100K, 200K or even 300K and it will be easier to negotiate that rate.

Act like your you don't care, whatever, yadda, yadda and that's what your hourly rate will be...whatever, and yadda yadda......

Just my opinon.........

I don't think it's the Ipod, cause you know what...just because it doesn't have a moving disc or tape or recieve radio waves, it doesn't mean that there hasn't been generations of people listening to music privately over headphones and all the sudden this device is the obnoxious one.

In boot camp back in '76, I had a contraband casette player that I used to listen to music through my pillow at night. I had to keep it hidden and listen to it during the daytime in secret places, when I had time. Never got busted.

I could care less about an Ipod or whatever. I think it's user attitude that is bothering the original poster. Its not like this generation that he's talking about invented the freaking thing...though they may think that they did. It's not like the music they listen to was invented by them...because it aint. Its not that this generation the original poster is talking about is REVOLUTIONARY, because they are NOT. It's user attitude...plain and simple.

They want to tune you out for some reason...maybe it's because they think they know everything.

To tell you the truth...I don't give a rats ass...listening to music is not a crime, wearing headphones is not a crime, neither is wearing shades. I figure if it's a big enough pacifier to keep that sore on the front of his face shut, who cares if it's a device that digitally stores all the music he stole from the original artists without paying for it...at least he's keeping that hole shut!

 

[jetexas]

Does anyone remember when all the passengers wore a tie or dress? I remember as a child my mom forcing me to wear my Sunday best to fly. Now shorts and a t-shirt is commonplace. If you go to church on Sunday you will see that hardly anybody wears a tie anymore. I think it is just the norm for our society. Even though I hated getting dressed up to fly as a child, there was something different about your experience. Aviation as a whole has certainly changed. Just look at the pitiful service provided by most airlines now. I think those days are gone forever. When in a cattle car, do as the cattle.

I agree. these days you get b*tched at by the 250 pound white trash woman or the flip wearing hippie for flying a turobprop instead of a jet. No meal! Etc...and they paid 88 bucks round trip! What about the 13 year old girls dressing like cheap whores?? Drive me up the wall. Wear your best and get treated accordingly!

 

[fulcrum]

listen to music in the cockpit

look it is all about your mind set in the cockpit , you should be alert and ready and anticipating all the time (basic Airmanship) ...............................an Ipod in the cockpit would disgust me.

why dont you drive a cab if you want to jam on your jobs !!!!!!!
Fulcrum

 

[Cardinal]

you should be alert and ready and anticipating all the time

Alright, my first post in this thread was about professional awareness and drive, etc. But honestly, you'll be burnt out by the age of 30 if you're that tightly wound, I've seen it. Consider this, you've been awake for 13 hours, on duty for 12, flown 6 legs and are in the air for your 7th hour, all this after the hotel decided they needed to execute that 1am RotoRooter job right down the hall. Your over a solid undercast, droning along at FL240 with the sun in your face. I'd call an iPod a safety device in this case.

 

[ACWild]

I'm not sure many people understand how stupid a short sleeve white dress shirt with an ultra thin blue clip on tie looks and black wal-mart shoes looks.

How about the professional pilot be required to wear a dark suit in the winter, and a choice of light or dark suit in the summer. Choice of tie and shirt color is at the discretion of the pilot. That would be a good step in the direction of being considered a true professional.

cale

A suit in the summer just isn't practical. How will pilots be perceived when they show up dripping in sweat looking like they just ran a marathon? Also, the b.o. that it could generate...

 

[potrack]

When I walk through the terminal, and I see a pilot that isn't wearing a hat, has a surfer type haircut, an ill-fitted baggy white shirt, a pair of orange mirrored sunglasses hanging from a multi-colored string around his neck (Yeah...I thought the string went out years ago?), and snow board stickers all over his flight bag---I say to my wife, "I bet that guy is a regional pilot"

When we get closer...usually 9 times out of ten, I'm right.

There are big fat guys everywhere, but I usually don't see that many with major airlines.

I agree with the privious post that said you gotta look and act like you're worth 100k - 200k if that is what you expect to negotiate from mgt.

How would your confidence be if you went to see a broker, ready to invest, and this guy comes out dressed in something unprofessional?