Hey Capt, when is it going to be like it was? You know, the repsect and pay?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

question for all you Cappo's out there. Would you tell a FO to go get dressed properly or else he could forget about ridding in the right seat?

I'd tell me FO to get rid of his I-pod, striaghten his tie and conserve his behavior. Heck yeah!

The problem is the entire culture is going business casual! But I don't think that is a reason for professional Line Pilots to do so....

The best reasons is I have heard not to wear the hat is.....

1. It is uncomfortable
2. I don't like it
3. It is an ego trip.

Ego trip? When did pride in professional image become an ego trip. I get the feeling the new kids have never had anything to be proud of. (where are your parents!)

As you and your pilot group start to negotiate your next contract, consider how your image is precieved by the flying public and management. As your image is blended in with aircraft cleaners, rampers, CSRs and FAs (Respect for all these people) perhaps it's just the same that the Aerospace Transportation Workers of America negotiate your paycheck.

My point is, if we have a defining indicator that seperates us from the other groups, then that will provide some leverage at the table. However, if we are thought of as common hourly workers, then that's what we'll get paid. A common hourly rate.

But people are sheep, and they'll only do what the flock does.

Pilots are a unique group at the airport.

Hats are unique. There is only one type of pilot that wears a hat. A Line Pilot.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

my favorite...

the Dr Martens or the black sneakers with the uniform...lookin' sharp fellas..

I guess it goes with the dingy cabins, ripped seats, rude service, no magazines in First Class, etc....etc....

gotta love "business casual".

Then again, you get what you pay for.

 

[lionflyer]

More reasons not to wear the hat:

4. It gives you major hat hair.
5. On a hot day you'll have sweat dripping from your ears.

 

[sky37d]

Speaking of uniforms, where could I get a uniform like the ones that PanAM used to wear? Including the hat. I listened to a speaker who said if you fly out of the country, get a uniform, it makes things better with customs and folks. He was wearing a white shirt, etc, and I thought, if this will help, cool, but no pansy thing for me, I want a PanAm uniform like the guy wore in 'Catch me if you can'.


Thanks

 

[MW44]

Rez O Lewshun,

What in the world do you have against cool shades and IPODS? If your FO wants to listen to his Ipod in the privacy of the cockpit while waiting for paperwork, etc. who cares? As long as he/she is not walking around the airport with headphones dangling out of their ears I don't see how it bothers you. I certainly don't see how it demeans our group as professionals. I have seen countless business travellers toting around Ipods over the past few months.

As for cool shades you don't really have a problem with people being stylish at work do you? I've never heard of people loosing respect because they look good/stylish. I agree 100% that toting around a backpack looks very juvenile but I don't see how sunglasses would convey that image. What I think looses respect for pilots is when you get the guys who walk around with pants that fall just above the ankle, clip on ties, a standard $4 watch, the monster beer belly, and generic black shoes that probably cost $9.99 at Wal mart. Most of those guys wear their hats but I think the overall image that the public sees is white trash professional.

 

[cale42]

MW44 pretty much hit it on the head. The modern airline uniform looks corny. And many pilots abuse the concept.. I'm not sure many people understand how stupid a short sleeve white dress shirt with an ultra thin blue clip on tie looks and black wal-mart shoes looks. But that with "the hat" is the uniform these days. , and I've seen plenty of pilots walking through the airport looking like fools dressed this way. Someone else mentioned that the uniform is what makes the "professional". Well.. lets think about this. The ONLY occupations i can think of where you wear a uniform these days is working an assembly line, being a janitor, cleaning pools, mowing lawns, etc... Professionals wear suits, or slacks and a button down. That is what is professional in the modern world. My flight school all the instructors wear dress shirts and ties. They can choose the colors.. and I think it is an extremely professional environment without all the goofiness.

How about the professional pilot be required to wear a dark suit in the winter, and a choice of light or dark suit in the summer. Choice of tie and shirt color is at the discretion of the pilot. That would be a good step in the direction of being considered a true professional.

cale

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Not Buying

I don't know where people get that backpacks are somehow unprofessional. Is this in some kind of professional etiquette book? Listen folks. When the rollaboard first emerged, there were many pilots that refused because it wasn't traditional. For some, bags are fashion statements, but for me and most professionals, they are simply tools with a function. The backpack works better for some people. If it works, it works. By this irrational thinking, it could easily be said that a briefcase with stickers is unprofessional and juvenile.

This also goes for sunglasses. The traditional aviator Ray Ban or military style sunglasses aren't for everyone either. Personally, I think they're kind of goofy. Yet, I'm not going to condemn folks for using what works for them.

Last question; As far as image goes, what is the difference between a hands free kit for a cellphone and an iPod?

Personal grooming, a uniform that doesn't look fresh out of the hamper, clean shoes with a little shine etc. Those are what passengers see.

 

[BoilerUP]

I agree with Rez on this one, and I'm a member of the "iPod" generation.

The uniform is all about perception. A police officer, firefighter, teacher, paramedic, waiter, limo driver, etc could all do their job just fine wearing khakis and a polo, but often they are required to wear some type of uniform because of public perception. Pilots are no different. The public has this 1960s "Catch Me If You Can" image of an airline pilot, and they could care less about the low pay of a regional FO. If you want them to care, its important to look the part - thats why Mesaba and XJET informational picketers wear their FULL uniform.

Dropping a few bucks to have yourself look sharp in uniform is a small step to go in making yourself LOOK like a professional. I was in AFROTC for my first three semesters of college and we were forbidden to wear backpacks in blues. We had to have a messenger bag of some sort and had to carry it in our left hand so we could salute with our right. Then they changed the rule to allowing backpacks, but only with one strap on the shoulder. Now a cadet can wear a backpack normally WHILE IN SERVICE DRESS! I know college kids sometimes have alot of books and stuff to carry around, and its "just ROTC", but that, in my eyes, does not convey the look of a professional military officer.

I wear Oakley Half-Jacket sunglasses (black on black) and recently bought a pair of Ray Bans (not aviators) to wear while flying the 400A. I love the Oakleys, but I wanted to convey a more professional-looking copilot to the passengers on the jet. Passengers get nervous sometimes when faced with a 25 year old RJ captain and 23 year old FO; the least we could do within our profession is ease those misguided fears by looking the part, not like we just rolled out of bed in the frathouse and hustled to the airport to make the callout time.

Come in clean-shaven, wear your hat, drop a few bones on a decent roll-on and shoulder bag, make sure your uniform isn't completely wrinkled or stained and make sure your tie is straight. Its really very simple, and if you don't like it, either work for jetBlue or similar company or change professions. You knew what you were getting into when you signed up.

 

[MW44]

Bornagain,

Backpacks look good for students or on a casual outing but look bad in our environment. They do not convey a professional image. When was the last time you saw a lawyer walk into a courtroom with a backpack over thier suit? What about a doctor wearing a backpack to the ER? I've never seen a Walstreet type wear a backpack and I'm sure that if a CEO/executive wore a backpack into the boardroom then he/she would lose credibility. It's materialistic and petty but those are the facts of life. Like it or not image is very important in corporate America.

When you think of the word briefcase the words professional, good job, high salary, etc might come to mind. None of those come to mind when you think about bakcpacks.

I always cringe when I see a 21 year old jumpseating home with a Jansport strapped to their back. I can't help but notice the passengers look these guys up and down and probably worry that this kid who looks like he should be studying for the SAT's is an actual airline pilot. How long do you think a newhire would last at any good job in corporate America if they wore a backpack to work every day?

 

[100LL... Again!]

MW44 and Cale are right on.


Personally, I hate The Hat. Wear it when I gotta, carry it when I can.

Good point on who wears uniforms these days.

All 'blus collar' guys. I guess we are blue collar. Most pilots I know act as thought they are white collar, though.

Union contract, uniform, advancement and perks based on seniority, an attitude that the 'worker is always right', no matter mgmt doesn't take us seriously.

I've met MANY pilots who have no problem fudging the block times when the ACARS is down, yet scream bloody murder when crew scheduling uses a LEGAL contract provision in a way that they do not like.

 

[gear_guy]

Does anyone remember when all the passengers wore a tie or dress? I remember as a child my mom forcing me to wear my Sunday best to fly. Now shorts and a t-shirt is commonplace. If you go to church on Sunday you will see that hardly anybody wears a tie anymore. I think it is just the norm for our society. Even though I hated getting dressed up to fly as a child, there was something different about your experience. Aviation as a whole has certainly changed. Just look at the pitiful service provided by most airlines now. I think those days are gone forever. When in a cattle car, do as the cattle.

 

[Ty Webb]

Rez O. Lushin:

I suspect that maybe your FO's are wearing their Ipods partly because it saves them from having to deal with someone who they are having a hard time relating to . . . . Not trying to be insulting, but I'll bet they lose 'em if they find they are paired with someone they'd rather be talking to than not.

Backpacks, to me, look ridiculous, juvenile and unprofessional. So are any shoes that stick out like a sore thumb. Ditto for the croakies and rainbow-colored Gargoyle type shades. Black Oakleys? Sharp. . . . . . . Ray-Ban 68mm Teardrop Aviators? "Ahoy, there, General, when's the retirement party?".

Hats, to me, are a little outdated. I wear my when I have to, carry it at other times, and that is between me and the Chief Pilot. I sure wouldn't appreciate a Captain or other Line Pilot making a determination of which one I should be doing.

For those of you who hang your professionalism on "the hat", let me tell you who still wears a hat:

1) The Maytag Repairman
2) The Skycaps
3) Ralph Kramden and other bus drivers


Any, Rez, choose your battles, be a mentor, not a control freak, and I'm betting that your FO's will be willing to meet you halfway . . . or even more.

 

[MW44]

Rez,

I still don't get what an Ipod has to do with anything? Do cell phones bother you? What about guys who use palm pilots to record their times, play solitaire, etc? Is that equally bothersome or do you just have something against Apple products in the cockpit?

 

[sky37d]

When in a cattle car, do as the cattle.

The point is, at least from my perspective, that as pilots, we are not cattle. There are 200 bazillion people in this country and 600,000 pilots. That makes a pilot a 1 in 300 zillion person. I tell people that anyone can fly an airplane, and the airplane makers have done things to permit that, but landing one is still like pulling your car into the garage at 100 MPH. It takes skill.

Just ask the Duke.

So, if you want people to have confidence that you know your stuff, you don't look like the average passenger. I to remember when passengers wore suits and dresses, and F/A's were all female, and all FOXES!!!, but those days are passed. I hope the day has not passed when professionals, in any profession, don't get dressed up in public. Can you imagine The Donald in jeans at a board meeting?
Can you imagine getting on a plane where the Capt and F/O are wearing jeans? As for the IPOD, I would say, look, got nothing to do, here's some things to do, and put that crap away until you are out of my sight.

 

[MW44]

"As for the IPOD, I would say, look, got nothing to do, here's some things to do, and put that crap away until you are out of my sight." Sky37d

Are you an airline pilot? You sound a little stiff around the collar. I don't know about you but virtually every line pilot I fly with finds something to occupy themselves during the little breaks that occur during boarding, de-boarding, waiting on fuel, etc.

I've seen guys read the paper, a book, a magazine, even the Bible, BS with the FA, tell jokes, play solitaire on thier palm pilot, listen to music on a mp3 player, etc., etc. Your comment makes it hard to believe that you've routinely worked your way through 14 hour duty days. You would have to be some kind of a robot or aviation super-geek to exclusively read work related material during a month of line flying. Maybe sterile cockpit starts and ends in the crew van with you, I don't know, but most of us need a little diversion from time to time when the work load is low.

 

[MW44]

Next time the guy I'm flying with pulls out a paper/Ipod/book maybe I'll throw a FAR/Aim at him and say "Hey you got nothing to do, here why don't you study up on light gun signals." That will probably go over real well...

 

[Twotter76]

Ahh yes another one of my favorite pet peeves - the hatless masses. My company has a hat policy - though it is not enforced and I would say that fully half of my fellow pilots choose not to wear the hat. I personally will NEVER be within sight of the public without a proper uniform. Why? Not only because it is in my FOM that I should do so, but because I am a professional. While the respect from passengers is nice (perhaps if you wore a hat instead of a backpack you might see it more often?), I do it for myself. When I was growing up I always saw the pilots at airport in the clean uniforms, shiny shoes, starched shirts (do half of you even know what starch is?) and ALWAYS with the hat on. I WANTED to wear that hat and I am honored that I am now in a position to do so.

Backpacks and tennis shoes are for teenagers or days when you are not working. As other posters eloquently pointed out you never see other PROFESSIONALS (see there's that word again) wearing either of those at work. I cringe every time I see my fellow pilot wearing tennies and a jansport walking down the hall - but it is not my place to go up to them and tell them what to wear. I would hope that most of us have enough self respect to want to look like the professionals that we all are. Sunglasses I do not care about because we are rarely seen wearing them in view of the public so whatever floats your boat I suppose. As to the Ipods I am not going to touch that one. Why is it that we all bitch and moan endlessly about wanting to be paid as professionals and yet so few of us are willing to act like them? As always be continue to be our own worst enemy.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Can someone tell what the he!! a Ipod is? Im 18 and I thought I would be up todate on this kinda stuff.

 

[FN FAL]

The point is, at least from my perspective, that as pilots, we are not cattle. There are 200 bazillion people in this country and 600,000 pilots. That makes a pilot a 1 in 300 zillion person. I tell people that anyone can fly an airplane, and the airplane makers have done things to permit that, but landing one is still like pulling your car into the garage at 100 MPH. It takes skill.

No, there isn't 200 bazillion people in the US, so that stat is a little skewed.

And as far as the correlation of flying to driving, keep this in mind...they already have automated and autonomous flight of aircraft. They have yet been able to do so with on or off road motor vehicles. This year's DARPA autonomous vehicle competition ended without anyone winning the one million dollar prize. The prize has been raised to two million dollars.

 

[MW44]

It's an Mp3 player. Plays music downloaded from your computer. About the size of a small cell phone. Apparently some people are offended by them. I think they're great. Good way to kill time when you're bored out of your mind.