Hey AMR pilots!

[Eagle-ista]

I was going through my closet this morning and found a bunch of APA's "One Airline, It's About Time" buttons. It made me wonder if there is any possibility of that happening at AMR?

I know the Eagle pilots are very pessimistic, especially after the beating we got by Darrah after we "didn't lose" the Kasher arbitration.

I'm more interested in the AA guys. Do the pilots at AA see the merging of the Eagle/AA seniority lists as a way around the scope headaches that are coming? Is there support for this among the general population at AA? And even more important, if there is support for it, why doesn't Darrah know about it?

In a recent conversation between the Eagle MEC chair and Darrah, the idea was raised again and Darrah was not interested in disscussing the issue. The EMB-170/190 is coming and AMR will probably buy some. The CRJ-700 is already here and Eagle just bought the option to buy all 50 jets in the original order.

I just want to know what the AA line pilots think about this.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Well, speaking as an Eagle guy....

I think the general AA pilot population as a whole is pretty clueless about the shady backroom dealings of Darrah and AMR with regards to the whole AA/AE flowback issue. I am currently in class on the jet right now, and most of the flowbacks have no idea what happened. I think that the rank and file AA pilots don't necessarily harbor an excessive resentment towards AE pilots.

That having been said, I think Darrah has poisoned the well for the immediate future. If the APA gets a real leader with some real vision, and who can convince the pilots of the benefits of proceeding with a merger, it could happen. Merge AA/AE, get an airtight scope clause that ALL flying be done by AMR pilots, eliminate Trans States, and Chautauqua.

So the short answer is.....not anytime soon!

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Super 80]

I was going through my closet this morning and found a bunch of APA's "One Airline, It's About Time" buttons. It made me wonder if there is any possibility of that happening at AMR?

ROTFL - YGBSM

APA hardly qualifies as a union, (It's an association in close association with management.) and on behalf of the 31% that voted no for the last abortion of a contract please excuse the weak-kneed 69% that lowered the floor for airline flying to something not really worth doing.

I'm sorry we reinvented the B-scale. Meanwhile, any ability for APA to secure more flying or unite Eagle with AA is totally outside of their management leanings. If they had to do something like actually stick up for the pilots, they'd wet their pants (like they did when AMR's lawyers were "on the steps of the Court House" to file for bankruptcy last April).

 

[Draginass]

Let me float this scenario by you.

I think that actually puts AE pilots in a stronger position. The APA (well, 69% of them anyway) voted themselves the lowest compensation in the industry and the disdain of other pilots in the industry. The APA itself is so divided and rancorous with such weak and disliked leadership that it's ceased to be and effective organization. What you have effectively is a lot of senior captains that the company has scared to death with threats to their pensions.

That said, now keep in mind that Arpey will have all the F-100s gone by next fall, with no replacements even ordered.

Expect Arpey to come back to these guys and say that the company can't afford the lump sum retirement payouts, but he really wants to "save" their A-fund, at least as an annuity. But in return, the company needs 100 seat flying to go to Eagle compensation/retirement. So either they can relent to a D-scale for 100 seat aircraft, or give it altogether to AE, or just outsource it out to the likes of TSA like they've been doing with 50 seaters. Since bring back a lot of pissed-off junior guys at D-scale might threaten the seniors hold on power, I expect that they'll just vote it away to AE.

Given the cowardice and willingness to fight the company to the last junior pilot (that's any pilot below THEM), expect it to happen. With a really large chunk of the junior guys already furloughed and not allowed to vote on union contracts, plus the fact that the APA Board won't even allow military pilots on leave of absenses to vote, the senior captains have the ladder pulled up fully.

So, it's a win/lose for AE ALPA. You'll get the 100 seat flying, but still at crap compensation and treatment by AE. However, the bar will be lowered yet again profession-wide, and you can expect to spend a really long chunk of your career working for commuter compensation . . . . . . even considering that the Flow-through was a sham to begin with.

Expect to spend a career with top earnings of $90k a year and a self-funded retirement. That's where the profession is going.

In summary, the APA leadership and senior guys don't want you there or the junior AA pilots back, for that matter.

 

[Eagle-ista]

Interesting idea.

I must wonder though... If there is that much animosity within APA and the discord is universal among the newer and mid-seniority pilots, then why are the most senior pilots directing the show?

A little revolution now and then is a good thing...

 

[AArider]

I'm a furloughed AA guy, and Eagle is expanding. How do you think I feel. Besides, just about everyone at Eagle probably wants to fly for the mainline - bigger planes, better routes, and more MONEY upfront and for retirement.

Merging the seniority list wouldn't do anything excpet create an A scale, B scale pay plan like AA had prior to the APA getting rid of it a few years back. Doesn't the flowthrough plan take care of a combined senority list - once you make RJ capt you can get an AA senority number.

AArider

 

[Av8trxx]

I'm a furloughed AA guy, and Eagle is expanding. How do you think I feel. Besides, just about everyone at Eagle probably wants to fly for the mainline - bigger planes, better routes, and more MONEY upfront and for retirement.

Mainline who? AA? 99% of the people I have met here want to get as far away from AMR as they can! From what I can tell, AA would be their last pick as a major to work for (unless they already had a flow number.) The brass ring is now more the likes of Southwest or JetBlue for the regional Capts I know looking to move on.

Originally posted by AArider Doesn't the flowthrough plan take care of a combined senority list - once you make RJ capt you can get an AA seniority number.

Yeah right. Flowthroughs a joke! It never worked right, but even if it had, it will expire long before AA ever starts hiring again so it's useless. The sentiment I hear from most is to get in, get time, and GET OUT of AMR ASAP.

 

[dispatchguy]

Doesn't the flowthrough plan take care of a combined senority list - once you make RJ capt you can get an AA senority number.
AArider

You mean the slowthrough? Yeah - keep drinkin the koolaid...

 

[AArider]

You mean the slowthrough? Yeah - keep drinkin the koolaid...

So you don't uderstand my sarcasm. The flowthough worked about as well as the flowback worked for me. It didn't. No kooliad needed there.

And I didn't say that AE pilots wanted to work for AA mainline, I just said they wanted to work for a mainline (any mainline). Unless you don't want to make widebody money. I agree that right now SW may be better, but maybe not in the future - only time will tell I guess. AA does have one of the best retirement funds - at least right now.

 

[Eagle-ista]

AA has one of the best retierment funds.

I was amazed to lean that Aloha actually has a better retirement plan than AA.

Imagine a small privately owned company, with no outstanding stock/debt, with actual growth on the horizon, offering more to their pilots than AA.

Maybe Carty left at a good time...