Here's why you don't drink the company coolaid!

[Nevets]

Business wise, that is EXACTLY what they should have done. Sorry to say that, but that is the truth.

Well, it may still happen. You have to take risks to be successful. Our management made a calculated risks with high potential. Only time will tell whether it works out. I'm just glad they decided to fight rather than giving up and furlough hundreds of their employees.

 

[Nevets]

Nevets,
You guys had to do this because you lost the CAL flying..... You lost the CAL flying because your contract got "rich", your costs increased, and you were getting too much "leverage".....

This is the new reality of the "portfolio concept" and competition based "whipsaw", which ALPA has failed to deal with.....

You are a big proponent of ALPA and criticize the Skywest pilots..... maybe they don't want to become the next XJT, ACA, CMR, ALG, CCAir, etc.......

We lost flying because CAL wanted to diversify and prevent a Comair strike type of event. They also wanted to reduce the profit margin to less than 8%. Of course our management could've given them whatever profit margin they were asking for. The arbitration award showed that our profit margin was more reasonable than CAL's.

I "criticize" Skywest because currently they have no way of setting the bar. They have to vote on pay rates that are just below ASA's. They should be the FDX of the regional industry.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We lost flying because CAL wanted to diversify and prevent a Comair strike type of event.

That is a big part of it. On this we agree. Airline managements are never again going to allow any regional to get that much leverage....Management learned from the CMR strike.... ALPA didn't...

The CMR strike was largely a management victory as they continue to dilute the leverage of the regionals and the unions that represent them....

Skywest will have more leverage with Delta than ALPA does.....

I "criticize" Skywest because currently they have no way of setting the bar. They have to vote on pay rates that are just below ASA's. They should be the FDX of the regional industry.

The payrates the are voting on are some of the highest in the industry....including mainline rates for the same aircraft......

The "FDX of the regional industry" will die a slow death..... I don't want to be the "FDX of the regional industry".....

How about we force ALPA to put an end to this competing for flying instead......

 

[Nevets]

Skywest will have more leverage with Delta than ALPA does.....



The payrates the are voting on are some of the highest in the industry....including mainline rates for the same aircraft......

The "FDX of the regional industry" will die a slow death..... I don't want to be the "FDX of the regional industry".....

How about we force ALPA to put an end to this competing for flying instead......

Skywest management might have the leverage but the pilots have virtually none.

Even if I agree with you that they "are some of the highest in the industry....including mainline rates for the same aircraft......" although they are lower than ASA's rates, they should be industry leading and not just some of the highest. I think they deserve it.

If you dont like my FDX analogy lets go with the NetJets of the regional world.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Skywest management might have the leverage but the pilots have virtually none.

Even if I agree with you that they "are some of the highest in the industry....including mainline rates for the same aircraft......" although they are lower than ASA's rates, they should be industry leading and not just some of the highest. I think they deserve it.

If you dont like my FDX analogy lets go with the NetJets of the regional world.

The primary leverage lies with Delta.... They are putting the flying out for bid.....

Skywest management then has leverage with both pilot groups..... ASA and Skywest...... thru whipsaw....doesn't matter that we are ALPA....the whipsaw still stings.....

Is NetJet competing with other pilot groups for the flying within the brand?

Industry leading in the reality of the portfolio whipsaw results in losing flying to your fellow "brothers".....

Until we fix the competition with "brand scope", the best place to be is the middle of the pack......You are confusing our industry and our union with a "brotherhood"...... We are a very loose association that primarily looks out for ourselves.....

If you want to reform ALPA, then we can talk.... Until then, expect more of the status quo.....

 

[Nevets]

The primary leverage lies with Delta.... They are putting the flying out for bid.....

Skywest management then has leverage with both pilot groups..... ASA and Skywest...... thru whipsaw....doesn't matter that we are ALPA....the whipsaw still stings.....

Is NetJet competing with other pilot groups for the flying within the brand?

Industry leading in the reality of the portfolio whipsaw results in losing flying to your fellow "brothers".....

Until we fix the competition with "brand scope", the best place to be is the middle of the pack......You are confusing our industry and our union with a "brotherhood"...... We are a very loose association that primarily looks out for ourselves.....

If you want to reform ALPA, then we can talk.... Until then, expect more of the status quo.....

What do you suggest?

 

[JoeMerchant]

What do you suggest?

Oh I don't know.... How about the Brand Scope that old DW promised.....

In addition to Brand Scope, we could lobby for higher entry requirements for 121 flying and we could push for a national seniority list with minimum contract standards......

What do you suggest?

 

[Nevets]

Oh I don't know.... How about the Brand Scope that old DW promised.....

In addition to Brand Scope, we could lobby for higher entry requirements for 121 flying and we could push for a national seniority list with minimum contract standards......

What do you suggest?

Im not familiar with DW's promise. How would higher entry requirements help? Not flaming. Just asking to see where you are coming from on that.

As for the national seniority list, Im with you there. More like a "real" union (for lack of a better word) rather than the "loose association."

 

[JoeMerchant]

Im not familiar with DW's promise. How would higher entry requirements help? Not flaming. Just asking to see where you are coming from on that.

As for the national seniority list, Im with you there. More like a "real" union (for lack of a better word) rather than the "loose association."

DW talked about "brand scope" which would control who could do the flying for a given "brand". For example, if the Delta ALPA contract set standards that had to be met to be a DCI carrier, then I wouldn't have to worry about my flying be given to someone else who was cheaper.....Skywest would sign up right away if there was some protection for them.......

Higher entry requirements would drive up the demand for our services across company lines because they couldn't go to the puppy farms to find replacements......In addition, it is a safety issue.....

As of now, we are simply a loose association that doesn't really have much bargaining power.....

 

[MINIME]

XJT may need to do what CHTQ did, and really try to buy another certificate to do some 70 seat flying. I know you couldn't do it for CAL but you might find another carrier that would allow you to.

It's counterproductive for my side of the fence but with today's fuel prices and the state of the economy that might be the only way out. Especially if CAL comes knocking with another 50 plus airframes. Frankly, I'd rather see that than pilots on the street. Which in the end also depletes our negotiating capital for trying to raise the bar. Supply and demand will be gone by the wayside. And we'll be back to post 911 hiring trends and salary slashing.

 

[climbhappy]

Doin time,
they may know anything about airline operations, but they know how to make money. look at the news in recent days. it is always and always will be about making money. the guy ' i'm referring to, an indian national, bought pinnacle at 2.50 a share and rode it up to 28, sold it , let it drop and bought it back in the teens. that's my point. he could care less about labor, junior manning and 2nd year pay.