Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Here is the DAL MEC Chairman's letter about the TA....

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
May 21, 2012
Dear Fellow Pilot,

Today, your MEC approved the tentative agreement for our new contract, over seven months in advance of the amendable date of our current contract. This agreement represents a significant accomplishment achieved in a difficult economic and negotiating environment. As in any negotiations, we did not achieve everything we set out to achieve, but substantial improvements have been made throughout our contract.
The contract language will be posted to the Section 6 page of the Delta MEC website today. The language is provided in the format of the existing Pilot Working Agreement annotated with tracked changes. Over the next several weeks, you will receive a great deal of information concerning the agreement. You will soon receive a Negotiators’ Notepad which will provide an overview of the agreement followed by expanded Notepads, each of which will cover various subjects in greater detail.

In this letter, I’d like to provide you with a high-level overview of the agreement
.
Our amendable date in the current agreement is December 31, 2012. Just one day later, on January 1, 2013, pay rates will be 12.8 percent greater than they are today. Four percent of that increase will take place once the agreement is ratified with an additional increase of 8.5 percent on January 1, 2013. This will be followed by pay increases of three percent at the beginning of 2014 and 2015. Just two years after the amendable date of our current agreement, pay rates will be almost 20 percent above where they are today. Pilots will also receive an additional one percent contribution to their defined contribution plans effective January 1, 2014. Importantly, we have eliminated the pay differential that exists between the MD-88 and the MD-90; MD-88 pay rates will now match those of the MD-90.

Some will argue these increases are not enough and that we should hold out for more, but this ignores the time-value of consistent year-over-year increases. Southwest pilots, for example, are where they are today because they work for a consistently profitable company and have received a series of modest pay increases. On the other hand, some pilot groups have stagnated with no increases for years waiting for the elusive home-run payout. Since the merger, and through the end-rate gains of this agreement, same-seat compensation (pay and defined contribution increases) at Delta will, on average, increase over 53 percent. A 737 captain, for example, earned $153.42 per hour in 2008 and received an 11 percent DC contribution. On January 1, 2015, he will be paid $216.92 per hour and receive a 15 percent DC contribution.

In terms of scope, we were able to achieve important improvements, from the smallest jets through international joint venture protections. Scope is the most complex section of the contract. At its core, it is about who flies Delta’s passengers and ultimately, about Delta pilot jobs.

Importantly, we will have a block hour ratio, which establishes a minimum amount of mainline flying relative to DCI flying and a cap on the total number of 50 to 76 seat DCI aircraft. Delta will be permitted accelerated access to 76-seat jets, but this access can only occur if Delta first acquires small narrow-body jets flown by Delta mainline pilots and if there is a significant reduction in the number of 50-seat aircraft. Without the acquisition of these new mainline aircraft, Delta will be capped at the current level for 70/76-seat jets. Ultimately, under this agreement, Delta’s access to 76-seat jets will be capped at 32 less than what is allowed in the current PWA. Additionally, Delta will no longer be permitted to convert 70-seat jets to 76-seat jets going forward, regardless of the size of the mainline fleet.

Delta management decides which aircraft it operates, but we have every reason to believe that Delta will soon announce the purchase of aircraft contingent on the ratification of this agreement. This will represent a major opportunity for many of our pilots to upgrade from the right seat to the left seat and will also create a need for additional hiring for the right seat. While the details are complex and best left for a dedicated Negotiators’ Notepad, let me summarize by saying that if Delta executes its plan for the small narrow-body jet flying, the result will be a major shift of block hours to Delta mainline. The share of mainline domestic flying will increase by 21 percent and the ratio of mainline domestic to DCI flying will increase by 57 percent over the life of this agreement.

We achieved a number of improvements in the scheduling arena, and one of the most significant is in the area of reserve flying. The reserve guarantee will be established as two hours below the average line value (ALV) with a floor of 72 and a ceiling of 80. This improvement alone will result in a monthly pay increase for reserves of between 2.9 - 14.3 percent depending on the monthly ALV, before the pay table increases are applied. Combined with the other improvements to reserve, it is my view that when viewed in aggregate, we will have the best reserve system in the industry.

The complicated and often punitive 75 percent sick leave bank has been eliminated. All sick leave up to a pilot’s yearly accrued maximum will be paid at 100 percent, and for pilots with over 20 years of service, the sick leave accrual will increase from 240 to 270 hours per year.

The agreement also includes an early retirement program similar in scope to the program offered to other Delta employees earlier this year, and this program will also be the subject of a standalone communication.
There are many other improvements in the tentative agreement such as “vacation any,” average daily guarantee (ADG), elimination of the sick leave monitoring program and others too numerous to cover here. In addition to the communications I’ve already discussed, the MEC administration and the Negotiating Committee will begin a series of system-wide road shows commencing after the Memorial Day weekend. We will also produce a streaming video for those unable to make it to a road show. In short, we will do everything in our power to provide you with all the information you need to cast an informed vote once the ratification window opens next month.

This tentative agreement provides for an amendable date of December 31, 2015, three years after our current amendable date. Under the current PWA, we would not enter mediation until March 2013. In mediation, the average time spent to reach an agreement is 29 months. Our time in mediation could be more; it could be less. But if we take the average, that means we might not reach an agreement until the fall of 2015, just months ahead of the amendable date of the recently achieved tentative agreement. Put another way, we’ll be
deep into negotiations for our follow-on agreement (Contract 2015) even before we might have reached an agreement on Contract 2012.

In a recent Chairman’s Letter to you, I wrote somewhat cryptically about fleeting opportunities, and earlier in this letter, I wrote about Delta’s fleet plan. The value the Delta pilots receive in conjunction with this TA is a result of Delta’s desire to execute its business plan in a timely fashion. It is in large part due to this leverage that we were able to seize the opportunity to reach this agreement over seven months ahead of the amendable date. Delta can execute a portion of its fleet plan without an agreement with ALPA, but this is a rare opportunity to accelerate and enhance that plan to the benefit of both Delta and the Delta pilots.
Finally, I would like to thank the MEC Negotiating Committee and their expanded team for the incredible work they have done over the past 18 months and in particular, during the last two months. The Delta pilots have once again set the bar for pattern bargaining, and shattered the paradigm of drawn-out negotiations. Importantly, if this agreement is ratified, we don’t intend to stop there. Your MEC will continue to make incremental but significant improvements at every opportunity, just as we have for the past several years.
The Delta MEC Negotiating Committee wholeheartedly endorses this agreement, and the Delta MEC has approved and endorsed this agreement.
It is my recommendation that when the time comes to cast your vote, you vote to ratify the agreement.


Respectfully, TM




Bye Bye---General Lee
 
no mention of the reduction in profit sharing. I wonder if that was bad info?

Also, the scope part is confusing. We'll see how the contract reads.
 
"The share of mainline domestic flying will increase by 21 percent and the ratio of mainline domestic to DCI flying will increase by 57 percent over the life of this agreement."
This statement alone sounds pretty good to me.
I don't understand what everyone is complaining about.... I understand the devil is in the details, but a 20% pay increase in tightening up on scope sound like a win for the pilots..... Am I missing something?
 
I'd like to see the spin on that ratio. Are they talking seats, aircraft, fat flight attendants or what?
Plus, single digit pay increases are laughable. 3% is merely cost of living. 4% DOS is a joke. I would have passed on the 12.5% all up front.
 
waterskier;2302444 I don't understand what everyone is complaining about.... I understand the devil is in the details said:
What you are missing is that we gave over 49% in pay this is not a
"raise".
Lost pensions, crap work rules, all under record profits
Show me the money!
 
Delta Pilot Contract Means More Jet Purchases, Union Says


By Mary Jane Credeur - May 21, 2012 1:21 PM MT


Delta Airlines may soon purchase more narrow-body jets when a tentative contract with its pilot union is ratified by a majority of members.
The accord, which includes pay raises of almost 20 percent, would allow many first officers to upgrade to captain while also creating additional openings for new first officers, Tim O’Malley, chairman of the executive council for the Delta chapter of ALPA, wrote today in a letter to members.


The contract would also allow the Atlanta-based airline to add more 76-seat regional jets, although “this access can only occur if Delta first acquires small narrow-body jets flown by Delta mainline pilots,” while also getting rid of more 50-seat aircraft flown by regional partners, O’Malley said. Pilots prize jobs on main jet fleets because it means better pay and benefits over the long term.

Analysts have speculated that Delta is among the interested buyers of the 88 717s that Southwest Airlines acquired when it purchased AirTran Holdings Inc. last year. Southwest has said repeatedly it would like to get rid of the planes as soon as it can. The jets have 117 seats and if acquired by Delta would be flown by the carrier’s pilots rather than by regional partners.


“All Arrangements”

“We’re looking at all arrangements and we have taken note that Southwest has indicated a desire to exit the fleet,” Delta President Ed Bastian said at a March 13 conference hosted by JPMorgan Chase in response to a question about the carrier’s interest in the Southwest 717s.

O’Malley’s letter didn’t specify what types of planes Delta would buy, although he said it would increase the ratio of domestic flying on Delta’s main jet fleet relative to flying by regional partners by 57 percent over the life of the contract.

The tentative contract will soon be sent to the 10,850 pilots for a ratification vote, and will be finalized if a majority of them approve it. Pilots will get a 4 percent pay raise upon ratification, with an additional 8.5 percent on January 1, then another 3 percent in years 2014 and 2015, O’Malley said in the letter.

The contract would give Delta “productivity gains and additional aircraft flexibility, including an opportunity to accelerate Delta’s domestic fleet restructuring strategy, which will result in a better customer travel experience,” said Gina Laughlin, a spokeswoman for the company, in a telephone interview. She declined to elaborate on what types of planes the company may buy.

Delta rose 4.3 percent to $10.58 at the close in New York. The stock has advanced 31 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:
Delta Pilot Contract Means More Jet Purchases, Union Says


By Mary Jane Credeur - May 21, 2012 1:21 PM MT


Delta Airlines may soon purchase more narrow-body jets when a tentative contract with its pilot union is ratified by a majority of members.
The accord, which includes pay raises of almost 20 percent, would allow many first officers to upgrade to captain while also creating additional openings for new first officers, Tim O’Malley, chairman of the executive council for the Delta chapter of ALPA, wrote today in a letter to members.


The contract would also allow the Atlanta-based airline to add more 76-seat regional jets, although “this access can only occur if Delta first acquires small narrow-body jets flown by Delta mainline pilots,” while also getting rid of more 50-seat aircraft flown by regional partners, O’Malley said. Pilots prize jobs on main jet fleets because it means better pay and benefits over the long term.

Analysts have speculated that Delta is among the interested buyers of the 88 717s that Southwest Airlines acquired when it purchased AirTran Holdings Inc. last year. Southwest has said repeatedly it would like to get rid of the planes as soon as it can. The jets have 117 seats and if acquired by Delta would be flown by the carrier’s pilots rather than by regional partners.


“All Arrangements”

“We’re looking at all arrangements and we have taken note that Southwest has indicated a desire to exit the fleet,” Delta President Ed Bastian said at a March 13 conference hosted by JPMorgan Chase in response to a question about the carrier’s interest in the Southwest 717s.

O’Malley’s letter didn’t specify what types of planes Delta would buy, although he said it would increase the ratio of domestic flying on Delta’s main jet fleet relative to flying by regional partners by 57 percent over the life of the contract.

The tentative contract will soon be sent to the 10,850 pilots for a ratification vote, and will be finalized if a majority of them approve it. Pilots will get a 4 percent pay raise upon ratification, with an additional 8.5 percent on January 1, then another 3 percent in years 2014 and 2015, O’Malley said in the letter.

The contract would give Delta “productivity gains and additional aircraft flexibility, including an opportunity to accelerate Delta’s domestic fleet restructuring strategy, which will result in a better customer travel experience,” said Gina Laughlin, a spokeswoman for the company, in a telephone interview. She declined to elaborate on what types of planes the company may buy.

Delta rose 4.3 percent to $10.58 at the close in New York. The stock has advanced 31 percent this year.

To contact the reporter on this story: Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta



Bye Bye---General Lee

Yeah, haven't heard that one before
 
Not my fight directly, but of course it effects the whole industry at some level, so I am an interested spectator. Interesting the pilot's that are so quick to judge this thing without knowing more, Especially interesting thinking tossing out alpa will improve their position, 216 an hour for 737 Captain plus 15% DC isn't an "insult". What does SWA get, how do work rules compare?
Do people really think trying to get DPA on the property will result in anything other than stagnation?
 
Delta Pilot Contract Means More Jet Purchases, Union Says

Is there any contract in the history of the airline biz that has not either explicitly or implicitly made that "promise?" Don't fall for it.

Two and half years to reach SWA rates (to say nothing of our W2s)?

Way to "take it back" guys. :rolleyes: I can't wait to pass the "Industry Leading" title back to your double-breasted selves, but you've still got to nut-up and ask R.A. for it.
 
Last edited:
Not my fight directly, but of course it effects the whole industry at some level, so I am an interested spectator. Interesting the pilot's that are so quick to judge this thing without knowing more, Especially interesting thinking tossing out alpa will improve their position, 216 an hour for 737 Captain plus 15% DC isn't an "insult". What does SWA get, how do work rules compare?
Do people really think trying to get DPA on the property will result in anything other than stagnation?

Dan,

You probably should be more interested in this TA than others since it may affect you directly someday. Sounds like our fleets will be pretty well matched if we do get those AT 717s. Just sayin.... My own opinion? I don't think it will lead to any furloughs, rather big hiring if those 717s come this way. I do not like the pay at all though. Way low in my opinion.


Godspeed!


The OYSter
 
Is there any contract in the history of the airline biz that has not either explicitly or implicitly made that "promise?" Don't fall for it.

Two and half years to reach SWA rates (to say nothing of our W2s)?

Way to "take it back" guys. :bawling:

Just curious, starting from the date SWA was founded, how many years did it take to reach Delta rates?

IMO, SWA current payscale was funded by years of absolutely phenomenal(possibly lucky) fuel hedging. Now that the edge is gone, we'll see who makes more in the next 10 year period, the DAL pilot, or the SWA pilot.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
Is there any contract in the history of the airline biz that has not either explicitly or implicitly made that "promise?" Don't fall for it.

Two and half years to reach SWA rates (to say nothing of our W2s)?

Way to "take it back" guys. :bawling:

It may be sooner than 2 1/2 years. Looks like GK is setting you guys up for paycuts or status quo at best. Hold the line guys! At least now our Whale, 777, A330, and 767-400 guys will make more per hour than your 737s. Truth!


Godspeed!


The OYSter
 
Last edited:
216 an hour for 737 Captain plus 15% DC isn't an "insult". What does SWA get

Factoring in company 401k match (all we get, no DC plan), SWA senior captains make $236.09/hr after converting from TFP. With the Delta TA, they would be making $249.46/hr including their DC contribution.
 
This TA doesn't bring us inline with SWA, it gets us close, and in 4 years from now, not on an earlier timeline as was expected. I think we all expected more considering the huge profits.

The raise is ok, but if it comes with a reduction in profit sharing, and an increase in 76 seat jets at DCI, it is really going to upset people. Promises of narrow body purchases are ridiculous, and total posturing.

We still haven't seen an actual TA as DALPA seems to be getting out in front of it to manage us. I think ALPA has given so many people a bad taste in their mouth, that a lackluster TA is the latest and biggest disappointment. People want to have their jobs restored to what it once was like, and believe a stronger hand with management is how you go about it. ALPA doesn't seem to take a strong enough approach for lots of guys.
 
Just curious, starting from the date SWA was founded, how many years did it take to reach Delta rates?

About 40 years. So I guess by your reasoning, after a trip through Ch11 Delta should be reclassified as an Upstart, not a Legacy?

IMO, SWA current payscale was funded by years of absolutely phenomenal(possibly lucky) fuel hedging. Now that the edge is gone, we'll see who makes more in the next 10 year period, the DAL pilot, or the SWA pilot.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Whatever. I'd rather be lucky than good. FWIW, I hope you do make more in the next ten years. Though with this TA, you're still not there yet. Not to mention the Scope Genie isn't even close to being put back in his bottle.
 
Last edited:
This TA doesn't bring us inline with SWA, it gets us close, and in 4 years from now, not on an earlier timeline as was expected. I think we all expected more considering the huge profits.

The raise is ok, but if it comes with a reduction in profit sharing, and an increase in 76 seat jets at DCI, it is really going to upset people. Promises of narrow body purchases are ridiculous, and total posturing.

We still haven't seen an actual TA as DALPA seems to be getting out in front of it to manage us. I think ALPA has given so many people a bad taste in their mouth, that a lackluster TA is the latest and biggest disappointment. People want to have their jobs restored to what it once was like, and believe a stronger hand with management is how you go about it. ALPA doesn't seem to take a strong enough approach for lots of guys.


The TA is out, check the website
 
This TA doesn't bring us inline with SWA, it gets us close, and in 4 years from now, not on an earlier timeline as was expected. I think we all expected more considering the huge profits.

The raise is ok, but if it comes with a reduction in profit sharing, and an increase in 76 seat jets at DCI, it is really going to upset people. Promises of narrow body purchases are ridiculous, and total posturing.

We still haven't seen an actual TA as DALPA seems to be getting out in front of it to manage us. I think ALPA has given so many people a bad taste in their mouth, that a lackluster TA is the latest and biggest disappointment. People want to have their jobs restored to what it once was like, and believe a stronger hand with management is how you go about it. ALPA doesn't seem to take a strong enough approach for lots of guys.

If the narrowbody purchases are posturing then it cancels out your increase of 76 seaters argument.

As far as profit sharing, it's negotiations, you can't get everything you want in a reasonable time period. But you can get DPA in there and sit on the old contract rates for the next 5 years if you're lucky trying to get pay and profit sharing increases

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
About 40 years. So I guess by your reasoning, after a trip through Ch11 Delta should be reclassified as an Upstart, not a Legacy?

Whatever. I'd rather be lucky than good. FWIW, I hope you do make more in the next ten years. Though with this TA, you're still not there yet. Not to mention the Scope Genie isn't even close to being put back in his bottle.

Scope genie is well on its way back. The TA is setup to significantly increase mainline flying while significantly reduce DCI. Mainline would have to get much bigger before a single new 900/E175 gets painted in Delta colors. If anyone thinks otherwise I would be delighted to hear a reasonable explanation.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
 
Factoring in company 401k match (all we get, no DC plan), SWA senior captains make $236.09/hr after converting from TFP. With the Delta TA, they would be making $249.46/hr including their DC contribution.

Thanks and that's a very accurate perspective. How much an hour are you making and how much goes towards retirement is the reality of it.
 
Dan,

You probably should be more interested in this TA than others since it may affect you directly someday. Sounds like our fleets will be pretty well matched if we do get those AT 717s. Just sayin.... My own opinion? I don't think it will lead to any furloughs, rather big hiring if those 717s come this way. I do not like the pay at all though. Way low in my opinion.


Godspeed!


The OYSter


Actually that's what I was saying. We got the raise we did last time because we were able to use your rates at the bargaining table. (I think our 767 rate actually was slightly higher for a year or two).
When we go back to the table, your rates will be very important to us.
So don't screw it up by stagnating in the DPA/USAPAIAN jungle for the next few years!
 
Just curious, starting from the date SWA was founded, how many years did it take to reach Delta rates?

IMO, SWA current payscale was funded by years of absolutely phenomenal(possibly lucky) fuel hedging. Now that the edge is gone, we'll see who makes more in the next 10 year period, the DAL pilot, or the SWA pilot.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Very well said, no it's not SWA bashing, it's simply reality.
 
Is there any contract in the history of the airline biz that has not either explicitly or implicitly made that "promise?" Don't fall for it.

Two and half years to reach SWA rates (to say nothing of our W2s)?

Way to "take it back" guys. :rolleyes: I can't wait to pass the "Industry Leading" title back to your double-breasted selves, but you've still got to nut-up and ask R.A. for it.

We should all be supporting each other to get higher rates, not trying to deparage other airlines to make ourselves look better.
We all know how SWA got to were they are and good for you guys that you finally got to the upper end of the industry payscales. How about checking your little "warrior spirit" and supporting others trying to do the same.
 
Last edited:
I remember when Delta had the best pay package in the industry. Now Corndog 737 pilots make more than senior Delta 777 pilots. Good for the Corndoggers but not so good for the Deltoids - especially those at the bottom stagnating due to the age 65 rule.

After the big cuts experienced in bankruptcy, this offer is way too low. Plus, who takes the first offer? No lawyer would recommend that. Delta has money - enough to buy refineries. Delta management WANTS you to take this first offer. Don't take the bait!!!!!! Also keep in mind that the old timers from Delta/NWA want the money now and will likely sell-out the younger pilots who have to work longer due to Age 65 as well - very predictable...

BTW, ALPA is a complete joke. Why would you allow one organization to represent both mainline AND the regionals at the same time? I am a regional pilot and that doesn't make any sense to me either. I think it is time to kick Lee CHOKE to the curb! I would vote this deal DOWN!
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom