help with landings

[nosehair]

Re: Re: LANDING TECH-TIPS (add to the above information)

Oh no, here we go again.

I see someone has heartburn about the old "pitch to the airspeed, power to the altitude" line....
Me too! You are early enough in your training to , maybe, not get sucked into that black hole. If you develop the habit of pitching to the airspeed on final, when you have heat thermals on final, you will have some days when you "just cain't git down".
When energy from the sun is transferred to our airplane via thermals, that energy has to be used somewhere. If you are in level flight, and you get an updraft, a slight increase in altitude, do you power back? Do you "power to the altitude"? No, you probably don't. You "pitch to the altitude", and allow the airspeed to increase a little. If the airspeed icrease is too much, you power back a little. The same is true on approaches. Normal approaches, that is, when your final approach airspeed is at or above max L/D. Below that speed, as in short field approaches, yes, you power to the altitude and pitch to the airspeed. But that is NOT a normal approach.
Believe me: if you pitch the nose down and aim it at the numbers, and KEEP pitching to the altitude(glideslope), and power back or up to control airspeed, you will consistantly make better, more stabilized approaches.

Try the flare in two parts: Keep the approach speed and glidepath down to about tree-top, or hanger-top height, then apply just enough elevator back pressure to LEVEL the nose with the runway. Keep it level momentarily as the speed bleeds off. Your power is idle. As the speed bleeds off, and you are looking at the far end of the runway down the centerline, as you see the airplane sinking down into the runway, try to imagine you are trying to FLOAT the airplane down the entire length of the runway. When it runs out of flying speed it will land - nose high, on the mains. KEEP THAT WHEEL BACK -just like the space shuttle landing. Slowly, as speed drops off ease the nose-wheel down to "land" the nose-wheel. Keep your eyes on that centerline and keep steering with your rudder and keep elevator back-pressure on the elevator to keep excessive pressure off the nose-wheel strut, and keep that aileron cross-wind control in while you steer this machine straight down the centerline on roll-out. Apply smooth, even braking to effect a smooth turn-off and look over at the big, toothy grin on your instructor's face.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude.

vs

Power for airspeed, pitch for altitude.

Two different ways of thinking about the same problem.

Which is right? I dunno in all cases but...

* In my 7ac Aeronca champ its pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. And this is for sure cause any pitching up has a dramatic effect on airspeed and very little effect on altitude (or glide path).

* Hawker 800xp= power for speed, pitch for glide path.

In reality pitch power and airspeed are all intertwined but if you need to break it down into sayings... I believe it depends on the aircraft you are flying.

Draggy under-powered airplanes are the ones that fit the pitch for airspeed rule.

Clean overpowered airplanes- the opposite.

In either case though you take a scenario where on final you are on speed but high:

1. Decide you are high and figure "I better reduce power to get down". As you do that you'd better lower your nose if you want to maintain speed.

2. Decide you are high and figure "I better lower the nose to get down". As you do that you'd better reduce power if you want to maintain speed.

So its all pretty much the same thing isn't it?

 

[JJJ]

When I had students that were having trouble with landing and flaring I would take them to a long runway and have them fly a normal approach, but instead of landing they would add power and try to get as low as possible with out touching down. It helped them with the depth perception and controlling the airplane in ground effect. After a few of these, all you had to do was reduce power and settle onto the runway.

It is the hardest part of the Private training. Most students struggle a little bit with the landings, until one lesson it just clicks.

Hang in there, you're doing fine.

 

[Toy Soldier]

The PTS simply mentions "pitching for the correct attitude and adjusting power as necessary".

After that, it's a matter of technique. It also becomes as simple as choosing one of the following options:

1. Adjust the pitch attitude and then use power to control glideslope.

or;

2. Adjust the pitch attitude and then use power to control airspeed.


The bottom line is to maintain a steady, controlled approach - that's it! It requires a combination of pitching and power.

I am sure that we can beat this up all day about "which is better". As we used to say in the Army, "Everyone has their own technique - just don't violate doctrine". The PTS doctrine says "pitching for the correct attitude and adjusting power as necessary". This means a GOOD LANDING, in the end!

As far as my primary preference in technique goes, I am always successful in teaching "troubled students" how to land when fellow instructors use the "other" technique while I watch their students bounce all over the runway upon landing. It's all about "application" at that point - whichever technique you subscribe to.

Also, other CFI's send their students to me when they have trouble landing. My "black hole" technique works!

Seriously...
A student needs to use all of the techniques listed together to make a good landing.
One of the techniques alone will not make a student into a good "lander".

And Sctt@NJA and JJJ hit on some good points as well. "Basically, we do what we gotta do" to make it work. Each scenerio can and is different and requires combinations of the above techniques to work out.

 

[SammyG]

Sorry I can't help you much here. I was the same way with landings when I first started out. I just got better at it the more I did it, I can't really explain what my "secret" is. I just learned how to "feel it" down onto the numbers.

I was really surprised with my landing during my recent IFR checkride, one of my smoothest ever. It's always a plus to hear the Pilot Examiner say in a pleasantly surpised voice "NICE landing!"

Just keep workin' on 'em and you'll be fine.

 

[bigD]

People here are giving a lot of good advice, and it sounds like you're doing a good job of setting the plane up on final. To be honest, I don't think there are any sure-fire hints at that point. You'll just develop the "picture" after awhile, and it'll all be automatic from there. Give it time - you'll get it.

 

[hammer]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I flew monday and today and what a difference! Today was my best by far. I nailed my approach speed almost everytime and that made a big difference, I also focused more to the end of the runway and just kept flying the plane until it touched down. My instructor was very impressed with the way I handled the plane. Of course they were not all perfect but I did grease a couple of landings. I just wanted to thank everyone who took time to respond with advice and encouragement it really helped alot. I'll let you know when I solo.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Great Job! Keep plugging at it...

 

[BoDEAN]

The more you practice, the quicker it will come.
You will be working on perfecting landings your whole life. Just one of the fun/great challanges we do when we fly.

 

[kabz]

The biggest help I ever got was being told to break down landing into the following three parts :

1) Final approach
- get airspeed right (lookup the POH), and TRIM it
- get a really good look round, and anticipate transition height

2) Transition
- with gentle back PRESSURE
- level off at an appropriate height above the runway

3) Landing
- gently reduce power
- maintain a levelish attitude
- maintain the centreline and straighten out if necessary
- be patient, wait for the sink
- hold the nose off

Funnily enough, no one had ever broken it down like this before (I already had my private rating) and having three distinct phases made it a LOT easier to get it right every time.

I think the main point that made the above useful to me, were forcing me to look around on final to judge my transition height correctly, and to split the level-off and power to idle into two steps, which makes it easier to get the level off just right. At that point you can pull the power off and move your view to medium far ahead, ready for judging your sink and hold-off.

In practice, it all flows together really well, and my landing consistency and confidence improved a fair bit.