help! need some encouraging words!!

[UPS Capt]

In today's market 1000tt and 125 multi is nothing. Your husband will need at least twice that amount to be competitive just for a Regional job if he's lucky. And, if he's lucky enough to get hired anytime soon, you'll have to live on poverty wages for many years until he can upgrade to Captain. The pre 9/11 days of hiring are gone for the foreseeable future. Your husband is now competing with many furloughed major airline pilots for a regional job.

I really can't believe your husband has put you and the kids through such hardships at this point and time for some aviation school's glossy pamphlet promising the world after obtaining your ratings. The reality is that aviation is a very fickle career field. Hiring and furloughs are a fact of life throughout ones career. Making decent money only comes after making Capt at a Regional and beyond. Your husband is a long way from that point.

Your husband needs to get a job outside of aviation and support his family. He can work just as hard as a part time CFI and gaining hours.

 

[UPS Capt]

Another point I want to make. I see this a lot, especially in young people just starting out, and not just in aviation but in other career fields. In aviation they'll say something to the effect of: "I'm going to get all my ratings this year, I'll be a CFI for 8 months then get on with a small freight company. After about 6 months getting multi PIC time I'll get on with a Regional. In a year to 18 months I'll be a Capt and 6 months later a major will hire me. Sounds like a good plan, right?

It sounds like a doable plan, aggressive but doable, if you don't consider the "X" factor. The "X" factor is all the variables that you have absolutely no control over. They would include the hiring cycles of the airline (very cyclical), the world economy, major sickness and just pure good ole' fashion luck.

When I look back at my career, I am amazed at how much of what happened to me was pure luck and timing. Sure, people will say you make your luck by preparing yourself but the timing had to be right also. I could be the most experienced aviator in the world but if the airlines aren't hiring then all that experience and 50 cents would only buy me a cup of coffee.

Your husband's timing couldn't be worse has far as current hiring trends go and I don't see that changing any time soon.

 

[English]

I disagree that decent wages will be seen once a captain at a regional. My friend is a fifth year captain on the Saab at American Eagle making 38K a year! I don't call that decent for a family of 4. Neither does his ex-wife.

Figure a year from now, your husband will be hired at a regional, then five years from that point he'll be making between 38K and 43K per year (adjusted for inflation, unless he works for Eagle).

The friend I mentioned above was EXACTLY in the same situation as your husband. In fact, the ex-wife was also a FA at Continental. They divorced due to the stresses - he was always on the road, she raised the kids alone and quit her job to do so, they lived with inlaws to make ends meet, were always borrowing money from others, got deep into debt, ruined their credit, constant calls from collection agencies...now they each have over $10,000 in mediation and lawyer's fees due to the divorce and custody issues.

The low salary wouldn't be so bad if the husband was around more. But the combination of low pay, the husband being gone from home three to four nights per week, and you raising your kids without a fulltime father is going to be difficult. Your family will be alone while your husband is in a crappy hotel room in Lawton Oklahoma on Christmas Eve.

Also keep in mind there ALOT of temptations on the road for a pilot. I have seen the cheating that goes on, and it's widespread. Yes, widespread.

I am all for encouraging one's spouse to follow dreams. Just understand what the sacrifices are going to be and decide what your priorities are as individuals and as a couple.

Sorry to be so negative, but, unfortunately, this isn't a unique scenario. Many marriages fail due to these types of stressors.

 

[UPS Capt]

I disagree that decent wages will be seen once a captain at a regional. My friend is a fifth year captain on the Saab at American Eagle making 38K a year! I don't call that decent for a family of 4

English,

Your right. 38K with a family of 4 isn't decent but I was thinking more about the "potential" salary of a RJ or Junglejet Capt making in the 50-60K+ range. While still well below major airline Capt income, it would still be considered a decent income by John Q. Public.

Heck, as a 3rd year Metro Capt back at the commuters I was making 25K before being hired on at UPS. 38K would have been nice!

 

[Captain X]

Re: Husband's job

Sorry, but that is the life you have, he entered into a contract with you and now he has to live up to that contract.

Right along with that.....you entered into the same contract, and if it was anything like mine, it had a section worded: "....for better or worse, for rich or for poor....."

It sounds like the 2 of you need to sit down and have a talk about the realisms of the industry right now and each of y'alls expections in your marriage. Print out your original post and let him read it before you start the discussion.

He's male.....he probably doesn't even know how you truly feel.

Talk with him.

Ahhhh....relationship advice on an aviation forum

 

[Mr Freeze]

To Pilot's Wife (from Mrs. Freeze)

Been there, done that, girfriend. I wanted to tell you our story, because I, too, have sacrificed:

In 1989, my husband started his flight training by paying on his own, but he ran out of money and was forced to stop. At this point, I thought it was just a passing phase or a hobby. When I was 3 months pregnant with our daughter, he went out of state to flight college, but came back about two months later. He worked at a home improvement store for a few years when he told me he wanted to continue his education. I stayed in California for a year while he went to school. My daughter and I finally moved there in 1995. My husband worked at various jobs (Home improvement store salesman, warehouseperson, carpenter's assistant, plumber's assistant), while I worked steadily at an office job. He would come home and tell me he'd quit his job because it conflicted with his school schedule. I would think, "here we go again." I was the sole supporter of the family for most of that time. During that time we were on foodstamps, and when those ran out, I accepted free food from a couple of the local charities, pawned our wedding rings for $15 about once a week, and stood outside a Salvation Army shelter at 5:00 a.m. to get help with our utilities when they were cut off. I also had to take our daughter to the free clinic when she was sick. I had to learn how to support my family on next to nothing. I don't know how we survived. My husband graduated in 1997, and we moved back to California. I thought this was the beginning of better times. I found out I was pregnant. We lived with my mother and he went to work as a flight instructor. I was shocked to see his paycheck for a month's worth of instructing. At least I was working. He went to work out of state twice and then quit before the birth of our twins. He found work as an instructor in our town and we moved into a two bedroom apartment. I have bills that I owe for credit cards that I haven't paid on in eight years or more! I just didn't pay them. I had to make a choice as to which was more important, a roof over our heads and food in our bellies or a good credit rating. My husband finally has a job at a charter company, but he is still a few rungs from the top of the ladder. We bought a home last year (bad credit and all), and I still have those bills, but I will pay them when I am able to. I am so glad the flight instructing part of his ladder climb is over. This whole process has taken less time that I thought. It has been five years since he graduated. I know it sounds like a long time, but it just flew by. I just want to tell you that you are not alone. I also want to tell you DO NOT sell your home. I'm sure you know that living with family members when you have children is the worst! I will never do it again. Tell your husband that he needs to get a job (try Home Depot or KMart, anything for now) during the day, and fly after work to get his hours up. Or he can fly during the day and work at night. I don't know why he would want to buy his own airplane, but it's not a smart move. It won't make him any money. He needs to make his choices wisely, try to get his hours up, and get on a budget. It won't last forever. He just can't keep living beyond his means. He has to swallow his pride and do what he has to do for the family. Get food stamps if you have to. Hey, I looked at like this: I paid enough into the system, now it's my turn to use it! I am happy to be where we are right now. I have a home that is three times the size of the apartment we had, we own our cars, and we are both working. We're not rich by any means, but we are able to live comfortably now. My husband did a lot of growing up in the past few years, and now he is more focused on the future of the family. Yours can't just think about himself anymore, you have kids. It has to be all or nothing. I wish you well, HANG IN THERE, IT DOES GET BETTER.

 

[DesertFalcon]

Hello. Pilotswife,

I agree with "UPS Capt."

You husband is ambitious and is trying hard; However, I think he is also being selfish since his career seems to be more important than you and the family.

I am sorry to be so judgmental but, aviation is full of former wives!

Your husbands current experience level is very low. I have 8000 hours and lots of other experience your husband doesn't have; I am a potential competitor in the job market, in the worst economy scenario.

Many years ago, I had to leave aviation to support myself because there were no jobs. Tell your husband to be realistic, Aviation is not the place to be, NOW. He can still instruct, but he needs to realize he is not very qualified in TODAYS aviation world.

Not trying to be negative here but Vanguard's Airline Pilots are now looking for jobs; Any flying job!

What airline will be the next to dump its pilots.

Good luck.... Please don't become a former wife due to your husbands unrealistic views of his aviation career.

God Bless you and your family. We can only pray that Aviation will come back and give us all better opportunies for fulfillment.

DesertFalcon

 

[KlingonLRDRVR]

Mrs. Freeze,

In my humble opinion you are a true saint. Your husband had better hang on to you. I admire your stamina, integrity and resolve. You are the true meaning of American Spirit. While I do not agree with what your husband has put you and your family through I have the utmost respect for you. As we can see from your post it is not just the pilots that are paying their dues. We all need to take a long hard look at what we put our families through. As the Klingons say "you come from an honorable house".

KlingonLRDRVR

 

[flywithruss]

It's not that dark!

This is a fascinating and in some ways inspiring thread. We all know the sacrifices that this industry puts us through, and it is up to each and every one of us to decide whether or not it is worth it.

Pilotswife, I agree with the poster who says you and your husband need to have a serious heart-to-heart about where you're going in life. He is right that the industry will pick up ... this always has been and always will be a cyclical business ... it'll go up, it'll come down. Those are the facts. And, with hard work and effort, you never know when a job will come along. I got my first corporate job with not a whole lot more time than he has right now, so it is possible ... but you have to be prepared for the long haul.

I agree with some of the previous posts ... DO NOT LET HIM BUY AN AIRPLANE! It is one of those romantic notions that will be a money pit ... insurance, maintenance, etc., will eat you alive. Your home is not only a place for your family to live, but a good long-term financial move. The airplane will swallow your dollars, but offers very little in return.

If I were you, I would encourage your husband to get a full-time non-flying job, be it white-collar or blue-collar, day shift or night. That way, he can provide for his family. He can flight instruct part-time or on the side. Your sacrifice will be in having little time with him, but the return will be that not only will he be providing financially, but he'll also (though perhaps a bit more slowly than he'd like) be working toward his aviation career. That will make him a happier person, and in the long run a better husband and father.

This is definitely the "for worse" and "for poorer" stuff they were talking about at your wedding ... but brighter days are ahead.

I'm not one to preach to people, but I have always found my faith to be comforting at the low points of my career and life. Remember, God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called. If flying is what your husband is called to do, it will come in time.

I wish you the very best of luck. You'll find the folks on this board, all our disagreements aside, to be a remarkable source of advice and support. Take advantage of it!

R

Romans 8:28, 8:31

 

[YODA]

I agree with almost everything I have read on this thread. I have been in the same shoes as your husband and I feel both of your pain. I flight instructed full time for a good while and it was tough! I spent 7 days a week at the airport, some were extemely long days and all I would make would be a whoppin' 24 bucks, WOW!! I am married with a child so believe me it was tough. My wife worked as a waitress at night on the weekends so we could make ends meet. After 9/11 I thought I was done, my plans were ruined so I decided to go and get a full time job doing what I did before flying and instruct on the weekends. I was fortunate however to land a little gig flying freight part 135, and I still have the same job. I like it and am going to stick with it until things get better. Things will get better for you guys, remember no matter what you want to do, or where you want to get, there are always speedbumps in the way and other people have been there, and more will follow.

Good luck and God bless
-YODA