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phishA320

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Posts
12
my dad wants to get a Robinson R-44 and fly it from Centennial to Granby because we have a place in Grand Lake. now, my dad doesn't have training, hours, any experience flying at all. my question is how many hours he'd need for a helicopter license that would allow him to fly to the mountains and back. he's looking for info since we're both clueless and i figured someone here has to know! thanks guys

ryan
 
How much does he want to pay for insurance? Why an R-44? How much instruction to be legal, or safe?
 
Know what you're getting into...

I'll be a bit more expansive in my reply than "don't get a Robinson". However, you may come to the same conclusion.

The Robinson Helicopter is a fantastic, well-engineered, and safe machine from a mechanical standpoint.

Robinson designed a great recip (as opposed to turbine) bird and thus shaved off millions of dollars in aquisition and operating costs. So, as an owner, instead of being filthy rich, you just need to be very wealthy.

If you research the crashes of R22 and R44, it'll give you great confidence into the mechanical reliability of the machine. That's because almost ALL are pilot-induced. But you end up just as dead.

I assume that your dad has money, so cost is not an issue. But the R44 has a safety problem due to the niche market of low-time, rich, owner-operators who can't wait to take their friends for a helicopter ride.

Helicopters are serious machines for professional pilots only. That is my opinion. If your dad has that approach toward flying, then get one.

But if he is like most amateur pilots, with lots of other things going on in his life, a high-powered job, used to fixing things with money rather than brains, wanting to impress people, then an R44 is a death-trap. With 4 seats.

As a pilot of both fixed- and rotary-wing machines, I have paid for my experience with little (and not-so-little) mistakes along the way. Fortunately, none have killed me. But due to the unforgiving nature of helicopters, as well as to the necessarily long process of becoming a proficient pilot, I believe many more "beginners errors" have serious consequences in a chopper. Some goofs I did in a plane would have been much more serious in a heli.

And thus a helicopter is not the place to start as a pilot.
 
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I have to agree with Ganja. Take this undertaking seriously and wait for the mountain flight until he has at least 200 hours under his belt as well as an instrument rating. The trip you are talking about is not an easy one, mountain winds can be extremely dangerous, and at higher elevations the Robinson is is probably going to be underpowered and not as responsive on the controls.

To answer your first question, he would need a minimum of 40 hours before he can get his private pilots license in a helicopter. This is the minimum that the FAA requires. However, before going for the checkride it will probably take at least 60-70 hours of flying. Consult with your local flight school and talk to one of the CFI's. They will give you their exact costs and hour breakdown.

The last thing I want to do is dissuade you and him on is flying helo's. THEY ARE A BLAST TO FLY!! Getting your helo certificate is very rewarding, and I am sure he will find it worth every penny. BUT... do not skimp on training!! The FAA requires minimums, but that is exactly what they are. For something like flying a Robinson in the mountains at high altitude, I would consult with someone who does it often around that area and fly with them numerous times into the mountains before I would go it alone.

Best of luck!! PM me if you have any other questions.
 
You know helicpoters don't really fly....


...they're just so ugly the Earth repells them


*thanks folks I'll be here all week...try the roast beef!

-mini
 
Well, I will only add that 4K of that >15K in my profile was in helicopters, and I never voluntarily flew in the Rockies. Maybe that's why I have lived to be 50, with >15K. I don't even voluntarily fly in helicopters any more.
 
yea i had the same feelings as you guys, really. these were questions for him, not for me. i dont think he should do it. im starting my PPL training in a month and feel that if anything he should just do that. he never really until recently had an interest in flying and saw an ad for a heli in one of my magazines and thought of this idea...the thing is, he's serious and i'm pretty sure i can't dissuade him. my uncle has had his license for years, has had a few planes, and owns a hangar at centennial. he wants to split a plane with my dad. i think he ought to just learn to fly planes, get a lot of hours and split the plane with my uncle. he can use them for the same purpose. i share the opinion that he should not just jump into it, and should be very comfortable flying before he even thinks of purchasing. right now he's looking into purchasing WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A LICENSE!

and as far as the whole rich thing goes, because the last thing i want is to come off as is a spoiled little kid who has daddy pay for everything...we are by no means super rich. my dad saves pretty much every cent he makes, which has allowed him to do these kinds of things. we dont live in a very nice house. our cabin is nicer than the regular house by a long shot. he doesnt spend a lot of money. i have a job and everything i want i pay for myself. my dad is a dentist, not someone high up in a company. i realize that nobody accused me of anything, but the comments about the rich people who solve their problems with money kindof stung, if that was directed at me at all. so i would like it to be known that i am not a spoiled rich kid. my dad has good intentions, he just doesnt really know where to begin. i agree with the points you guys made, and thank you for answering my questions. i'll try my best to talk some sense into him! thanks guys

ryan
 
I really cant picture anything except a millitary heliocopter even trying to fly over Corona Pass. Plus isnt it rough up there even in a fixed wing aircraft?
 
i was little when i flew over but i remember it being bumpy. and wow. this NTSB site...im looking at january 04 and theres an accident pretty much every day. i never knew they were so common :( yea i think i'll show him that. he is definitely making an unwise decision.
 
Anyone have any GPS cordinates to any of the crashes up there? I heard one crashed in yankee doodle lake on rollins pass, anyone know if theres any truth to this rumor?
 
It is my impression that Schweizer helicopters have a better safety record than Robinson . In the December issue of Flying magazine, reference is made about a training school that has 130,000 hrs in Schweizer 300CBi's with no injury accidents. I am impressed. Maybe I am biased after seeing what was left of a guy in a R22 after the main rotor cut the boom off.
 
well, good news. he has dissuaded himself. apparently he's been looking into it more than i had thought and realized it wasn't such a good idea. thanks guys
 
I've got a question...

If helicopters are so safe, how come you never hear of antique helicopter fly-ins? :p

'Sled
 
Good move!

:cool: I did one of my CFI's in that thing and I will NEVER get in it again! Any aircraft that has its own SFAR has a problem. Good luck!
 

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