Big Duke Six
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Heli gun camera footage
- Thread starter skyking1976
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737 Driver
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j41driver
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Immelman said:
If you've never seen anything more disgusting you've lived a pretty sheltered life.
I guess you've never seen the Daniel Pearl video that shows Islamo-fascits severing his head. Or the video of Islamo-fascits cutting the throat of a captured Russian soldier. Or countless other heinous acts commited by these animals.
I think we can all agree that it's a good thing you aren't running the show over there, or we'd need to see every terrible thing every terrorist did and visually verify their bad guy ID card before we could ask them if it was ok that we shot at them.
This is what war is all about. It isn't pleasant or fair. That aircrew made a judgement call with the information they had available.
To reiterate what VaB just said: Those guys were standing where a bunch of 30mm rounds landed. Ruin your health record every time. That's what they did worng.
But if you really need to know for the sake of feeling better about watching this thing, as was mentioned above, according to the story they had a weapon that was undoubtably to be used against Americans over there.
Last edited:
skyking1976
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I know this one has been posted before but what the heck... Darn good footage.
http://www.sftt.org/AC130_Gunship.wmv
http://www.sftt.org/AC130_Gunship.wmv
You guys are right, I have lead a sheltered life. Pulling a bloody, mangled teenager out of a car accident after seeing him lose control and flip his SUV was about as bad as I've seen... probably nothing compared to a lot of people.
I'm not opposed to doing what needs to be done with the bad guys.... but seeing $#!t like that without the cause of why we're attacking... sorry, it just leaves a bad feeling in my gut. I guess my initial reaction was "were these guys murdered or was it justified".
I'm not opposed to doing what needs to be done with the bad guys.... but seeing $#!t like that without the cause of why we're attacking... sorry, it just leaves a bad feeling in my gut. I guess my initial reaction was "were these guys murdered or was it justified".
skyking1976
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skyking1976 said:There are 3478 reasons as to why this is justified. Or have you forgotten already...
SK
I have not forgotten and never will. The trouble is that I'd be happy betting my life savings on the fact that the 3 guys taken out by our helo had zero to do with 9/11. Osama and his boys are still on the loose.
I'm not some pacifist lets-all-take-a-toke hippy either - I just think that the way to fight these guys isn't with conventional means. It isn't about every militant in Iraq or Ahghanistan polishing their 1980's American-supplied weapons, its about intelligence, about turning the tides in the thinking of young Arab men who think we're the devil. Attacking people here and there with our vast military might won't change what is in the hearts of these guys... it'll just piss em off more!
anyways, sorry, back to aviation
skyking1976
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Immelman said:
No apology necessary. It just seems our stratigic methods differ. IMHO, the time for intel gathering and covert reconaissance ops was before 9/11. Perhaps a looser leash on our spies would have prevented the WTC attacks or put us in a position to preemptively remove Bin Laden from the hierarchy of Al-Qaida. In any case, hindsight is 20/20 and an act of war has been committed.
The Taliban has been ousted from Afghanistan, Hussein has been captured and the terrorist community (and those who support them) has less leadership, for now. The problem with removing terrorist leaders and dictators from power is that other ones pop up in their place. As long as a country or militia is ruled by a religious entity, there will always be "holy wars" all in the name of righteousness.
I, however, am not content to let terrorists roam the globe, plotting to destroy those who value their freedom. This war was a long time coming and I, for one, hope that we accomplish everything necessary to rid the world of the fanatical organizations that promote terrorism.
SK
CL60
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gun stats
They were ploughing a field at night which may indicate they were poppy farming... a big revenue source for the bad guys.
Here's some info on a 30mm chain gun of the type used on some attack helos like the Apache.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/apm230.htm
http://www.atk.com/productsPrecision/descriptions/products/GunSys/30mmChainGun.htm
The Super Cobra carries:
(1) M197 20mm cannon.
Used primarily against soft-skinned and lightly armored targets and for self-protection.
Three-barreled, externally powered, hydraulically driven turret. Maximum capacity: 750 rounds; rate of fire: 730 rounds/minute.
Maximum range: 2,000 meters; maximum effective range: 1,500-1,700 meters.
Ordnance: M789 HE, dual purpose ammunition.
http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/m-197/m-197.htm
With ranges of 4000 meters and 2000 meters respectively, you would never even know they were targeting you. The lesson here is... if the guy next to you turns into raspberry mist, put your friggin' hands up in the air. Also, do not get the US pissed off at you.
They were ploughing a field at night which may indicate they were poppy farming... a big revenue source for the bad guys.
Here's some info on a 30mm chain gun of the type used on some attack helos like the Apache.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/apm230.htm
http://www.atk.com/productsPrecision/descriptions/products/GunSys/30mmChainGun.htm
The Super Cobra carries:
(1) M197 20mm cannon.
Used primarily against soft-skinned and lightly armored targets and for self-protection.
Three-barreled, externally powered, hydraulically driven turret. Maximum capacity: 750 rounds; rate of fire: 730 rounds/minute.
Maximum range: 2,000 meters; maximum effective range: 1,500-1,700 meters.
Ordnance: M789 HE, dual purpose ammunition.
http://www.gdatp.com/products/lethality/m-197/m-197.htm
With ranges of 4000 meters and 2000 meters respectively, you would never even know they were targeting you. The lesson here is... if the guy next to you turns into raspberry mist, put your friggin' hands up in the air. Also, do not get the US pissed off at you.
CL60
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Terrorists
Immelman wrote,
I'm sure our crews in the field don't fly around sanctioning targets without being pretty sure about them first... Especially when they have to wait for permission from JAG lawyers to fire and its all on videotape.
As far as thinking that our efforts will just 'piss em off more'---that kind of thinking is what gave these thugs power to begin with. That kind of thinking is exactly what they want to ellicit from you. You think we have stirred a hornet's nest? They have been attacking us for well over a decade. They have stirred a hornet's nest.
You are right about what is in their hearts though. They hate us from their very souls which only strengthens the argument to kill them.
Immelman wrote,
I'm sure our crews in the field don't fly around sanctioning targets without being pretty sure about them first... Especially when they have to wait for permission from JAG lawyers to fire and its all on videotape.
As far as thinking that our efforts will just 'piss em off more'---that kind of thinking is what gave these thugs power to begin with. That kind of thinking is exactly what they want to ellicit from you. You think we have stirred a hornet's nest? They have been attacking us for well over a decade. They have stirred a hornet's nest.
You are right about what is in their hearts though. They hate us from their very souls which only strengthens the argument to kill them.
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