Heli Flight School

[Skaz]

Hi guys,
I am looking for a helicopter flight school at which to do a CPL add-on and CFI rating. I have looked at Heli Adventures in Florida, but the accommodation and transport around there is a problem. Does anybody know of other big schools with a good reputation, accommodation nearby and easy to get to, i.e. between accommodation and school? Doesnt really matter which state it is located in, but somewhere like California would be nice!
Thanks

 

[The Saint]

try Boat Pics they are actually a company that does aerial photos of boats but they also do training and it is way cheaper because they train you as part of their operation. They have like 9 r-22m and one instrument robbie. the ph number i dont know off the top of my head but look it up on the net. I have flown with them and was quit happy

 

[seethru]

I would give Hillsboro Aviation a try (http://www.hillsboroaviation.com/page.asp?id=287). It's a fairly large school with a good reputation. I believe they have housing available, too.

It's near Portland, OR. I know that CA sounds a lot better, but you'll get some good training with the weather/mountains up here.

Greg

 

[na265]

HAI in TIX seems to be a good school. We spend a lot of time there with our corp job. Talk to Patrick about your concerns, he can probably work something out with you.

 

[avbug]

www.helicoptertraining.com

http://www.verticalreference.com/vertical_reference_flightinstruction.htm

 

[Skaz]

Thanks a lot for the info guys, it looks like this is a difficult decision to make, with having to consider the type of helicopter trained on (R22 vs CB300), location for wx and accommodation and transport.

Am reviewing all the site and schools I can get my browser on, and will post more specific questions about certainschools etc.
thanks for the gen so far

 

[FracCapt]

Thanks a lot for the info guys, it looks like this is a difficult decision to make, with having to consider the type of helicopter trained on (R22 vs CB300), location for wx and accommodation and transport.

I, personally, would recommend training in the 300CB. In the R22, you have the SFAR73 to deal with....which means that you have to have AT LEAST 20 hours of dual in the helicopter before you can even solo it. Some people may take that long to solo anyways, so it's not necessarily a big deal in their situation....but if you are ready after 10 hours in an R22.....too bad, gotta do another 10.

The commercial add on states 50 hours of helicopter are required, but 35 of those have to be PIC. So, to finish in 50 hours(which very few people, if any, do), you have to do 35 hours solo and 15 dual. Not even legally possible in an R22.

On the bright side, the R22 has a governor, so you don't have to manually control the engine/rotor RPM as you raise or lower collective...but, really, it becomes second nature pretty quickly when you do have to control it(as in the 300CB).

If you ever want to teach in the R22, then it would be beneficial for you to do your training in one. You must have 50 hours in the R22(per SFAR73) before you can teach in it. For other helicopters, you are only required to have 5 hours PIC in make and model to teach in them.

 

[Skaz]

My gut feeling is that I'd rather fly the 300 than the r22. Too many people have told me the thing is bad news. But ironically, its the cheapest to operate and thus more schools etc use them than any other small heli. Even though, the numbers indicate more people write themselves off in R22's than otehr light helicopters.

Just sucks for the first heli job though, if you train on the 300, then you are not as marketable as a R22 driver. Then again with 50 hours plus a few more for the CFI , nobody is gonna hire you anyway...right? So its a catch 22 scenario looks like .

Question to you FracCapt, if the law states that you need 50 hours for the add-on, why do some schools advertise their add-on CPL programmes with less that those hours? Ive seen 40, 45 and even 35 hours flight time advertised on some websites.

Also, if you go ahead and get the add-on CPL and CFI ratings, on a 300, whos gonna employ you anyway, only 300CB operators, and it seems there are not a lot of those around. So unless you land a job with the school that trained you, youre scr#wed,....again.

Or am I missing something.....

 

[IP076]

Hey,

You might want to give Guidance Helicopters in Prescott, Arizona a shout.

There is one hotel within walking distance of the airport.

I know they keep pretty busy, or at least did, but other than that, I don't know much about them.

 

[avbug]

If you're intending to go beyond simply adding the rating, then I'd give serious consideration to using the Robinson. If you train in the Robby, you can go anywhere and transition with little effort to another type, such as a 300. However, if you train in the 300 or a Bell 47, you'll still need to fly off the requisite hours in the robby before you can instruct in it. You're better off getting in the time while you're needing to pay for it anyway...it's easier cost wise to transition to other helicopters, then to transition back to the Robinson. Especially as it's an industry standard for training, and instructing initially will be your best bet.

 

[FracCapt]

Just sucks for the first heli job though, if you train on the 300, then you are not as marketable as a R22 driver. Then again with 50 hours plus a few more for the CFI , nobody is gonna hire you anyway...right? So its a catch 22 scenario looks like .

The only job you're going to find flying an R22 is as an instructor. You need to look into places you might be interested in instructing, and seeing what they operate. This could be the decision maker for you. The time in the R22 could potentially help you later if you go someplace operating an R44 because some of the time from the R22 satisfies the requirement for the R44. Usually, up to half of the required time can be in the R22. Chances of getting a job at 50-60 hours....not all that great, but much better if you're willing to move to where the jobs are. Don't expect to come out with 60 hours and a Comm/CFI....expect more along the lines of 75+, more if you add the Instrument rating as well(which is a 15 hour add on).

Question to you FracCapt, if the law states that you need 50 hours for the add-on, why do some schools advertise their add-on CPL programmes with less that those hours? Ive seen 40, 45 and even 35 hours flight time advertised on some websites.

I have not seen any websites that advertise that, but honestly, I have never looked. It could be one of two things. 1) They say that you can get the Commercial with 30-40 hours(or whatever they state), but the Private Helicopter is a pre-requisite - which they may or may not state on the website.....or 2) They may be a Part 141 school, which has lower minimums - though I don't know what those minimums are.

If you find a school you're interested in, and it doesn't specify on the website...call and ask.

Also, if you go ahead and get the add-on CPL and CFI ratings, on a 300, whos gonna employ you anyway, only 300CB operators, and it seems there are not a lot of those around. So unless you land a job with the school that trained you, youre scr#wed,....again.

Keep this in mind. The only job you are going to find flying EITHER an R22 or a Schweizer 300 is flight instructing. There are lots of places flying both. With a Commercial Helicopter ticket(or private for that matter), you can fly any helicopter 12,500lbs or under legally. Of course, you're not going to get a job flying a EC135 or even a B206 right out of training...no insurance company would cover you.

Of course, there are a few of 300's and R22's out there flying that are used for jobs other than instruction, but they are few and far between....

 

[Skaz]

Even if you do the training on the R22 for both the Cpl add-on and CFI and maybe even an instrument rating, you would still be short of the 200 hours you need for instructing in the d*mn thing. If I understand the SFAR xx correctly, you need 200 heli time and 50 in R22's to instruct in it.

What idiot designed the bl**dy ab*rtion of a R22 anyway. There has to be something inherently 'wrong' with the aircraft if you need all this special attention and training. Why does 300CB or Bell 47 drivers not need it?

Would I be able to find a list of registered 300CB operators on the FAA website or some other gov site? This way I can peruse the ops on both R22's and 300CB's and make a more informed decision.

Before I'm doing the heli thing I shall be getting my FW ATP and CFI as well, in the hope that a corporate outfit might see more value in me as a dual rated pilot, what with having almost 3000 hours FW. FracCapt and Avbug & you knowledgeable blokes out there, 'dyou think this is a wise career move? As I would like to get on with an outfit that operates both FW and RW on one type initially and then maybe in future start flying hte other as well...thinking of companies such as Evergreen and other EMS operators here....

 

[The Saint]

Actually you can do it in less. I added on my Comm heli with 38 hrs. I don't remember how they where able to do this but it might have been part 141 rules or some such. I did a xc and a night xc and the rest was ep's and all the comm manuevers. It was the toughest check ride i have ever had, and that includes my FAC check over Iraq in the A-10.

 

[FracCapt]

If I understand the SFAR xx correctly, you need 200 heli time and 50 in R22's to instruct in it.

You're right. I overlooked that part, but upon re-reading it, it's right there in black and white.

There has to be something inherently 'wrong' with the aircraft if you need all this special attention and training. Why does 300CB or Bell 47 drivers not need it?

The R22 and R44 are very....umm...."unique" helicopters...with some problems. The way the FAA remedied the situation was to issue SFAR73. When they finally decided those aircraft needed some special training and experience requirements, there were already so many of the things flying that they didn't want to just ground them all permanently.

Would I be able to find a list of registered 300CB operators on the FAA website or some other gov site? This way I can peruse the ops on both R22's and 300CB's and make a more informed decision.

I can't help you there. I don't know how you would do that, other than contacting each manufacturer and requesting a list of known schools/commercial operators for those aircraft.

Before I'm doing the heli thing I shall be getting my FW ATP and CFI as well, in the hope that a corporate outfit might see more value in me as a dual rated pilot, what with having almost 3000 hours FW. FracCapt and Avbug & you knowledgeable blokes out there, 'dyou think this is a wise career move? As I would like to get on with an outfit that operates both FW and RW on one type initially and then maybe in future start flying hte other as well...thinking of companies such as Evergreen and other EMS operators here....

That's the plan a lot of us have or had....but those jobs are few and far between. I may have found my way into one of those jobs in the very near future, but nothing is set in stone...so who knows. I don't feel that your CFI will help you at all, unless you actually have a fair amount of dual given. Just getting the rating won't make employers think any more of you, IMO.

It's all a crapshoot....as is just about everything in this industry. It's completely up to you whether or not you think it's a wise decision. It WILL at least make you a better, more aware pilot.