Heavy Lifters (C17, C5) Guard/Reserve Jobs

[C-141/C-5]

I dont't want to be the guy with the negative message, but jobs these days are REAL HARD to get if you are not current and qualified in that aircraft the unit has! Find someone in the unit you want to join and use that as your way in. TRY MCHORD C-17s I think they might need people.

 

[kingsize]

Kingsize,

It sounds like you want an AGR slot, that pretty much narrows the field to Guard units as opposed to Reserve. I know of very few Reserve units with AGR slots, most are ART positions (civilian). Hickam is the only C-17 guard unit in your area of preference, not sure about the tankers.

dudemize, thanks for the real helpful response.
For those knowedgeable about ART positions, what are the benefits? I've heard some pros and cons, and maybe you can tell me which of it is BS.
I heard that if a pilot does 10 years active duty, then gets an ART position, he can retire as a civil servant 15 years later, and within that time will have accumulated enough active duty points to qualify for an active duty retirement. So, in essence, that pilot would be drawing military retirement and civil service retirement immediately. Is this all true?

Other things I've heard is that ART is really a pain in the ass, and that you're basically clocking in all the time, without the freedom that most USAF pilots have.

How does the pay compare? Someone who is ART vs an active duty pilot, major or ltc with pilot bonus (ACP)?

Here's what I found for pay schedules and retirement, and it doesn't look all that special to me, but then I just did a brief search and don't know the reality of it:
http://www.opm.gov/retire/html/faqs/faq11.asp#csrs
http://www.opm.gov/oca/06tables/indexGS.asp

 

[kingsize]

I dont't want to be the guy with the negative message, but jobs these days are REAL HARD to get if you are not current and qualified in that aircraft the unit has! Find someone in the unit you want to join and use that as your way in. TRY MCHORD C-17s I think they might need people.

Thanks. I'm still 3 years away from doing anything, so who knows what will happen during that time, with all the deployments and oncoming energy "crisi" and everything. I'm just looking at options and going to build myself a little folder with different ideas---anything from flying jumbo jets full of rubber dog******************** (or whatever cargo they carry) out of hong kong (Cathay) to joining the reserves and going back to school, to staying active duty and taking the bonus (if it's still around) to going to an AGR or ART job to retiring to a central american country and living as cheaply as possible to getting out entirely and never flying again except for my own personal enjoyment.

 

[C-141/C-5]

THE reserves and guard sound it's what you want. The flexibility and pay is good. Don't expect an ART or AGR job off the bat.

 

[Mamma]

I dont't want to be the guy with the negative message, but jobs these days are REAL HARD to get if you are not current and qualified in that aircraft the unit has! Find someone in the unit you want to join and use that as your way in. TRY MCHORD C-17s I think they might need people.

We are pretty full at McChord. Many apps on file already from units that received the axe in the last BRAC...PDX for one. My unit is 120% manned. Alaska is standing up. Chances best there I think. HI would be next to impossible for an unqualified guy IMHO. McGuire maybe. I hear Dover is getting C-17s so take heed that the early bird gets the worm. Kingsize, what is a strategic operational aircraft anyway and are you current in your airframe right now?

 

[kingsize]

We are pretty full at McChord. Many apps on file already from units that received the axe in the last BRAC...PDX for one. My unit is 120% manned. Alaska is standing up. Chances best there I think. HI would be next to impossible for an unqualified guy IMHO. McGuire maybe. I hear Dover is getting C-17s so take heed that the early bird gets the worm. Kingsize, what is a strategic operational aircraft anyway and are you current in your airframe right now?

Thanks for the info on the other bases. See the last post on page 1 for my reply to your other post.

 

[KCPilot]

Travis would actually be my base of preference. Do all those aircraft (C5, C17, KC10) have guard/reserve units there?

To let you know, I’m somewhat up on the hiring of the West Coast units since my unit is converting to Global Hawk and some of here still want to fly a plane and stay out west. Here is the breakdown of what I’ve been told but units and guys looking at some of the other units.

Travis AFB:

C-5: 312 AS- Might have a TR slot or two but was looking for ARTs. (The ART slot might be filled by now.)
C-17: 301 AS- Standing up and getting first jet in Aug 06’. Might have a TR slot or two left. Did mass hiring back in Fall 05’.
KC-10: 70/79 ARS- Not hiring and currently overmanned.

March ARB:

KC-135R: 336 ARS- Not hiring at this time and awaiting new manning doc.
C-17: 729 AS- Hiring

McChord AFB (C-17):

97 AS- Hiring only C-17 fully qualified pilots.
728 AS- Not hiring; 120% manned.
313 AS- Not hiring; 120% manned.

Beale AFB (KC-135T):

314 ARS- Hiring and converting to RQ-4 in 2008 or 2011 or 2015. But the tankers leave in 2008….so you be the judge!

As far as the units in AK and HI, I’m not too sure. I know the HANG likes you to be from the area and live in the area. As for the AK ANG and the new reserve C-17 unit in AK I’m not sure but I heard that the C-17 unit wants you to be C-17 qualified.

But as was said in this thread before and was told to me by some of the units listed here is that this is all based on the airlines. Most guys would like to retire but are sticking it out till the industry changes. If things get better, they will retire and slots will be open. This can happen in a year or two you never know but one thing is for sure, it does go in cycles and we are due for the other side now! Good luck on your search.

 

[dudemize]

kingsize,

I'm not an expert on ART positions but I'm very familiar with them. If you become an ART you can "buy back" your military time so it will count toward your civilian retirement (25 years). So yes if you have 10 active duty years and 15 as an ART, you will be eligible for a civil service retirement. You will NOT be eligible for an active duty retirement, however, you will be eligible for a reserve retirement which kicks in at age 60. The amount of your reserve retirement is based on your rank and accumulated points. There are calculators available on the web.

Yes being an ART can be a pain when it comes to tracking time. Trips can be flown in civilian status (usually becomes comp time when over 40 hrs), or military status (required for going downrange), or a combination of the two.

I think pay is a little less than active duty due to the fact that the civilian pay is not tax free when going downrange, only the military portion. If not doing down range often then probably about the same when the reserve pay is factored in.

 

[KCPilot]

kingsize,

I'm not an expert on ART positions but I'm very familiar with them. If you become an ART you can "buy back" your military time so it will count toward your civilian retirement (25 years). So yes if you have 10 active duty years and 15 as an ART, you will be eligible for a civil service retirement. You will NOT be eligible for an active duty retirement, however, you will be eligible for a reserve retirement which kicks in at age 60. The amount of your reserve retirement is based on your rank and accumulated points. There are calculators available on the web.

Yes being an ART can be a pain when it comes to tracking time. Trips can be flown in civilian status (usually becomes comp time when over 40 hrs), or military status (required for going downrange), or a combination of the two.

I think pay is a little less than active duty due to the fact that the civilian pay is not tax free when going downrange, only the military portion. If not doing down range often then probably about the same when the reserve pay is factored in.

Actually there is a lot more to it. You can buy back your AD time and only AD time. Inactive time (AFTP/UTA) does not count. You have 3 years to buy it back from the time you start then you incur a penalty. As for retirement, you need to meet you minimum retirement age (MRA) which depends when you where born. I don’t have the book with me right now but I’d say most of us would fit in the 57 yr old range. So as an ART officer you have a mandatory retirement age of 55 yrs old, unless you get an extension. To add to that the way I understand it is that if you start to collect your retirement before 55, you get a 5% per year taken away from you from 57, so you would lose 10% if you start to collect at 55. So in this case you would need to have 2 yrs stored or get a side job to fill the time in between.

As for the tax free down range, you do lose that for your civilian pay, but not the mil. You have to convert to mil status to go down range and that is tax free. It’s the most confusing pay system you will ever know. ARTs spend 4-8 hrs a week figuring out what they did, documenting it and then justifying it to the command bean counters. I say make all ARTs AGRs and save us the BS of it all! Life would be much more enjoyable!

 

[kingsize]

Actually there is a lot more to it. You can buy back your AD time and only AD time. Inactive time (AFTP/UTA) does not count. You have 3 years to buy it back from the time you start then you incur a penalty. As for retirement, you need to meet you minimum retirement age (MRA) which depends when you where born. I don’t have the book with me right now but I’d say most of us would fit in the 57 yr old range. So as an ART officer you have a mandatory retirement age of 55 yrs old, unless you get an extension. To add to that the way I understand it is that if you start to collect your retirement before 55, you get a 5% per year taken away from you from 57, so you would lose 10% if you start to collect at 55. So in this case you would need to have 2 yrs stored or get a side job to fill the time in between.

As for the tax free down range, you do lose that for your civilian pay, but not the mil. You have to convert to mil status to go down range and that is tax free. It’s the most confusing pay system you will ever know. ARTs spend 4-8 hrs a week figuring out what they did, documenting it and then justifying it to the command bean counters. I say make all ARTs AGRs and save us the BS of it all! Life would be much more enjoyable!

Sounds like a huge mess. I'm not sure if that's even worth figuring out. The ART position sounds like it's definitely not my thing. I can't stand being micro-managed or logging my every activity. I'd go crazy. More and more I'm thinking staying active duty is the way to go. Really I think the AGR jobs are the best if you can get one in an aircraft and location you like. When the time comes, I'll have to look hard into AGR and see what's available then. Even if I joined on part-time and didn't get picked up for AGR for a few years, I would consider that. I could work on some of my pet projects during that time. Thanks for all the really good feedback from everyone.

 

[slacker]

The pilot ART pay scale is a series 5 table 558. http://apps.opm.gov/ssr/tables//index.cfm?action=all_title_5_tables Scroll unitl table 558.

In order to get an ART postition you must be qualified in the unit's aircraft. GS-9/11 copilot, GS-12 Aircraft commander, GS-13 Instructor. I would think you'd have to invest 2 yrs minimum before you'd be in the running for a full-time position. You would have to get trained thru the FTU and then start paying dues at the squadron. Getting an ART job is all about timing, and if you wait around long enough, you can get one. It took me 11 months to get an ART job, due to the speed of the system. I got hired Sept 10, 2001, the day before ART jobs were scarce.

 

[bssthound]

kingsize says:

The ART position sounds like it's definitely not my thing. I can't stand being micro-managed or logging my every activity.

Logging your every activity usually takes about 3 minutes of every day. If you have a good DO you'll escape most of the minutia. In the Reserves the DO is the "full-time" boss; the Sqdn CC is usually a part-timer.That being said, ART jobs are hard enough to come by for folks who're already in the unit, current and qualified.

Even if I joined on part-time and didn't get picked up for AGR for a few years, I would consider that.

That's almost certainly what you'd have to do. AGR is a good deal; those jobs are almost always snapped up quickly by folks who've paid their dues in that particular unit. Trust me, you'll not get to cut to the front of the line. Speaking of AGRs, they're rare in the Reserves; they're by and large found in Guard units.

I've seen more than a few guys show up first day in the Guard/Reserve expecting to go immediately into a full-time slot. Back in the late 90s it I saw it happen a couple times. With the current airline environment, I wouldn't bet on it. Count your blessings if, as a part-timer, you can get into a unit flying an aircraft you're not already current and qualified in. There are just too many current and qualified people beating on the doors right now.

 

[L-1011-500]

I'd have to find a unit that would send me through C-17 or C-5 or KC-10 training...and that would be willing to give me an active reserve slot.

Why don't you just ask to be the wing commander while you're at it. Coming in without being already qualified in the squadrons aircraft and getting right into an AGR slot is about as realistic as winning the lottery. My advice to you as a C-5 guy is go after whatever one will give you the opportunity to get as many active duty days as possible. I am in the Guard and have been on continuous active duty since 9-11. With the airlines in dismal shape these days the competition is really stiff to get hired as a fulltimer now. We have guys that have been flying with us for over 20 years and are bailing the airlines to get on full time AGR. If you can Guard/Reserve Bum it then it's pretty good right now. But with a family to feed it can be tough especially when the war ends or they cut back the C-5's. Just my 2 cents.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

Travis has 4 Reserve Squadrons. 2 fly KC10s, 1 flies C5s (312th AS) and my former C-5 Squadron now flies C-17s (301st AS). ART slots are hard to come by these days. THe 312th has excess Fred Crews due to the reshuffling from the 301st when we converted to Barneys. The Wing has scrambled and has done a good job employing almost everyone that was forced out of the 301st. ART positions would prolly be better in the 301st, but then again you have the furloughed Airline guys troughing to live. First thing's first, you gotta get a slot before you even start fantasizing about getting a sweet spot. Visit the Squadrons...I've seen that work for a few guys.

Both Squadrons are pretty good. C-17s are where the future is going....Pretty sad statement coming from a C-5 FE. Good luck!

A USAFR C-5 FE/Corporate Pilot
"OMG it's an enlisted guy up front!"