Health Care

[Praetorian]

The biggest problem with socialized medicine aka ObamaCare, is that if the GOVERNMENT is in charge of your healthcare, they can also TAKE IT AWAY. They can, and eventually will, CONTROL YOU VIA HEALTHCARE. As in, if you don't vote for a particular party, "they" will take your healthcare away. And those in power will inflict more socialism on us in the name of "compassion" (read: more control over us, more power for them).

Those who are OK with the state controlling so much of your lives, vote your conscience, but know what you are getting us into. A huge mess that will control us, not to mention saddling our children and our children's children with a debt they cannot repay. Don't fool yourself into thinking socialized medicine is about healthcare. Its about GOVERNMENT CONTROL OVER YOU.

The right always goes off the deep end over change. Remember when the Civil Rights Act would bring an end to civilization as we know it. How about Medicare, that was portrayed on the right and a sign of the end times. The same for woman's sufferage, the integration of the military and the 40 hour work week.

I think we should all remember paranoid rants like the one above a few years from now after we've lived with this health care reform for a while. I think like Medicare and other government programs, which were initially used by the right to try to scare us, this one will ultimately be popular.

The fact is this program is not "socialized medicine" and the goverment can't "take it away" now any more than they could in the past. After a minimal amount of objective analysis and no matter where any of us stand on the wisdom of enacting this legislation we should at least be able to agree on these two facts. http://factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care

What's more germane to our discussion here is that with or without health care reform, health care costs have been an will go up. The two union contracts in the fractional industry protect their respective pilot groups from the threat of these increases. Someone mentioned a 51% increase at FlexJet. I remember pre-CBA when something similar happened at Flight Options. It's no wonder 95% of all professional pilots are unionized.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Just because you heard it on Fox and Glenn Beck says it's so doesn't make it so.

I'll grant you that. But, hearing from MY HEALTH INSURANCE company does.

And I quote:

"The changes Texas Health is required to make to our medical plan because of health reform will cost the company nearly $4 million dollars in 2011 alone- and those costs will continue to escalate in future years. In addition, our medical plan experiences cost increases every year because of the unhealthy lifestyles of many participants, increased use of health care services, new technology and new medications. For these reasons, Texas Health can no longer afford to continue to offer Choice Plan 350.

If you are currently covered under Choice Plan 350, you need to choose a different medical plan option for 2011".

Page 1, 2011 Annual Enrollment Workbook for Texas Health Resources

That's right cowboys. We are being forced off of our current medical plan (contrary to what Nobama said) and being forced onto a higher deductible plan (Plan 350=$350 deductible). If we want to maintain the same monthly cost we will have to accept a $1000 deductible. If we want the $500 deductible our monthly costs will slightly more then double.

Higher costs and higher deductible. I'm loving this already.

 

[Praetorian]

Wow! Four whole million annually, for a huge company that owns 12 hospitals?

Company CFO, "We're taking it in the shorts on this choice plan. These Bubbas are eaten to much barbecue, getting fat and costing us."
CEO, "Well let's just cut it."
CFO, "But it's a popular plan and the people like it."
CEO, "Just eliminate the plan and we'll blame it on 'Obamacare', these idiots around here will believe anything if we blame it on Obama or 'the Govment'."
CFO, :laugh: "That why they pay you the big bucks boss."

 

[gunfyter]

Yeah ... they should just furlough about 40 employees to make up the $4 million.

You do know the purpose of business is to make profits?

Obviously the Plan 350 is not profitable ... because of Obama. If it were profitable I guarantee they would continue to sell it.

 

[warlord19]

Hey, I know Praetorian and his like will go along with this....let's just ask Prez O to give every one, say, one million dollars, and this could only be spent for us and our families' health care. That should work, shouldn't it?

 

[Jack Campbell]

The right always goes off the deep end over change. Remember when the Civil Rights Act would bring an end to civilization as we know it. How about Medicare, that was portrayed on the right and a sign of the end times. The same for woman's sufferage, the integration of the military and the 40 hour work week.

I think we should all remember paranoid rants like the one above a few years from now after we've lived with this health care reform for a while. I think like Medicare and other government programs, which were initially used by the right to try to scare us, this one will ultimately be popular.

The fact is this program is not "socialized medicine" and the goverment can't "take it away" now any more than they could in the past. After a minimal amount of objective analysis and no matter where any of us stand on the wisdom of enacting this legislation we should at least be able to agree on these two facts. http://factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care

What's more germane to our discussion here is that with or without health care reform, health care costs have been an will go up. The two union contracts in the fractional industry protect their respective pilot groups from the threat of these increases. Someone mentioned a 51% increase at FlexJet. I remember pre-CBA when something similar happened at Flight Options. It's no wonder 95% of all professional pilots are unionized.

If you want socialism, you can move to France. This is the United States and we have a different system.

You owe me an apology for implying that I am opposed to Civil (equal) Rights, women's suffrage and the integration of the military. But I'm not losing any sleep over the apology because I don't expect you will give what you owe. :laugh:

 

[jonjuan]

What's more germane to our discussion here is that with or without health care reform, health care costs have been an will go up. The two union contracts in the fractional industry protect their respective pilot groups from the threat of these increases. Someone mentioned a 51% increase at FlexJet. I remember pre-CBA when something similar happened at Flight Options. It's no wonder 95% of all professional pilots are unionized.

Congrats then on paying no health care premiums as part of your contract and having a protected 401K match. Those can easily be taken away without a contract.

 

[rettofly]

Hey, I know Praetorian and his like will go along with this....let's just ask Prez O to give every one, say, one million dollars, and this could only be spent for us and our families' health care. That should work, shouldn't it?

Oh yeah.. let's tap the "Obama Stash" for "Obama Cash". That'll work.

What the advocates of single payer seem to forget or ignore is that the single payer will have to get the money from those who are to receive the free or low-cost services. In Canada, that translates into federal income tax rates starting at 42% and a 13% sales tax (VAT?). There is no free lunch. A lunch program administered by the government is more costly than a trip to the Subway or Wendy's, you don't get to choose from a menu, and the meal you're looking for may not even be available.

 

[Praetorian]

Hey, I know Praetorian and his like will go along with this....let's just ask Prez O to give every one, say, one million dollars, and this could only be spent for us and our families' health care. That should work, shouldn't it?

Hey I've got a better idea! Let's take 36 billion dollars and hand it out to the richest 2% of the population. And while were at it lets have more tax cuts while we're fighting two wars and not propose any corresponding spending cuts.

Let's promise the American people tax cuts that would, if implemented, require the elimination of all non-military spending from the budget. And lets make these cuts to government spending immediately, rather then phasing them in gradually while were in the middle of a slow economic recovery.

 

[Praetorian]

If you want socialism, you can move to France. This is the United States and we have a different system.

While I can see you a completely unencumbered by the thought process, I will point out for the benefit of others that I never advocated for socialized medicine, but was pointing out that Obama's health care reform is not.

You owe me an apology for implying that I am opposed to Civil (equal) Rights, women's suffrage and the integration of the military. But I'm not losing any sleep over the apology because I don't expect you will give what you owe. :laugh:

I wasn't implying anything. I was comparing your most recent paranoid rant to those heard from the right, during times of significant change in the past.