Heads up for anyone flying to Hawaii.

[mdanno808]

I'll jump in just to make a few comments. First of all, it is amazing how little some people seem to know about jumpseat policy. Jumpseating is a privelage, not a right, and the captain has the authority to refuse ANYONE he/she chooses. Yes, using the jumpseat as a political weapon is childish, however, enforing jumpseat policy is not. I used to work for a supplemental carrier, who had a few employee's that were caught using the jumpseat illegaly, (when traveling on company business), and our entire pilot group was sanctioned and not allowed the jumpseat while our pilot's and management were taught the do's and don't s of jumpseating. If policy is broken, and ALPA nat'l finds out, the entire pilot group will suffer. If all of the jumpseat coordinators and ALPA Nat'l know about the situation, let them sort it out.




​

 

[dash8driver]

the difference here is there are pilots based at other stations that will be travelling to HNL only for training, then going back to their bases on the other islands. they are also requiring all the crews (no matter where they're based), to be in HNL on the 6th, 3 days before the base is opened. those crews arent based anywhere in hawaii until the 9th.

i'll help anyone jumpseat all day long if they're using the jumpseat within the ALPA guidelines. i wont help or condone anyone using the jumpseat in violation of the policy...too bad, its the rules. if ya dont like it, you have plenty of time until the 6th to do the right thing and get your boss to buy you tickets.

all thats being asked is for people to stay within the policy. is that too much to ask? if its, please let me know. otherwise just grow a pair so you dont get yourself into a situation you could have avoided.

if you have questions regarding how a specific use of the jumpseat falls into the ALPA jumpseat policy, contact your jumpseat coordinator and ask them. if it turns out to be against the jumpseat policy, contact your MEC and let them know so they can get you proper positive space travel. this way you wont have to worry about being bumped or jeoprodizing your groups priviledges.





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[flyguppy]

Missing The Point!

This is simple. There's two seperate issues: the evil JO and the hapless Mesa pilots. The pilots are simply trying to get to work on their own time. Please don't deny them the JS. "Company Business" would be a space-positive JS and they don't have that ability on any carrier but their own.

Please, people, NEVER use the JS as a political weapon. It only harms us all.

Mesa is having MANDATORY training in HNL. Pilots are based at the outer islands. They are being told to get to HNL on their own for MANDATORY COMPANY TRAINING.

Jumpseating to this would be abuse. Mesa should be providing travel for their pilots to attend this training.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Here's the memo that has started it all.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=80105

It's quite simple, according to ALPA policy, the jumpseat is not to be used for company business IE relocating crews to fly.
I have nothing against the Mesa pilots personally. In fact once they are relocated I'll carry them on my J/S. But that memo is out of line and has stirred enough controversy that I believe we should do all we can to counter abuses of the system by such an anti-labor CEO.

Commuting to work on an ALPA carrier's jumpseat is also for business reasons. What is the difference between Mesa doing this and anybody else???

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Good points and you probably wouldn't guess it but I'm not a jumpseat nazi. I do everything I can to help fellow pilots get to were they are going. I've already carried two Mesa jumpseaters between PHX and HNL.
As far as being displaced or not, these guys are essentially being told to be at a company meeting at a certain date and use the jumpseat if you have to to get there. Seems like abuse to me. The correct thing to do would be get them business travel passes on USAir as they have plenty of flights to Hawaii out of PHX. If a carrier told a pilot that he has sim training in say DEN and was told to use the jumpseat on another carrier to get there, that is a clear abuse and would get that company in hot water. I see this as the same thing. I am though, keeping an open mind. I'm curious to everyone elses reaction as I'm someone biased, I work for HAL.

Ok so what about this: I live in let's say PHX and I am based in OAK. My company requires me to fly twice a year for simulator training to ORD. I choose to go directly by way of jumpseat from PHX to ORD, although my company reserves a seat for me on my own airline from OAK to ORD.
Am I to be denied a jumpseat on an ALPA carrier?

 

[roadrunnerblue]

Absolutly not, the key words in your statement "travel is arranged by the company". If ATA said be in MDY to fly a trip and use whatever jumpseat you can to get there to save us money, THAT would be a clear violation.

So it behooves anyonewhen requesting the jumpseat to not elaborate as to why? If that is ALPA's position then nobody will tell you the truth anymore. Maybe you should ask anybody who asks you for a jumpseat for what reason he is asking and then follow up with requesting proof of pos. space tickets????
Idiotic if you ask me! If this is a true ALPA policy I have just lost any remaining respect I had for this organization.

 

[flyguppy]

Commuting to work on an ALPA carrier's jumpseat is also for business reasons. What is the difference between Mesa doing this and anybody else???

You obviously do not work for an airline. It is a part of a contract. Training made mandatory by the company, will be paid for by the company. It is not up to you to "make your way" there by abusing the jumpseat. It is for pilots going to and from work or on pleasure travel.

Your point about deviating from PHX-ORD instead of your base of OAK....... Again, you're not getting the point. What mesa is doing is as if saying to you, "yes, you need to be in ORD for your simulator training. You are on your own to get there." The fact of you not living in OAK is irrelavant. Would this be OK? Mandatory training in ORD and your company gives you no way to get there?? Even from OAK?? Same thing with this. They are based in the surrounding islands, yet they are told to be in HNL for training.

Let's just say, if I had a mesa guy going to this training, and some other pilot going to work at his domicile in HNL, the mesa guy gets left behind. Their company should be providing them travel.

 

[Dan Roman]

Let me try this from another angle. We can all jumpseat to and from were we need to be as our personal needs dictate. The violation here is Mesa is conducting a company training day on June 7th and telling pilots to get there on their own. Pilots from OTHER domicles as well as HNL based pilots. That's the violation. If your airline said they are conducting training in say SFO and all pilots are required to be there and to use jumpseats to do it so the company saves money, that would be a clear violation of jumpseat policy.
The Mesa pilots from various domicles are being told to meet in HNL for a company training event and being told to get there on their own.
This is no different than if your company told you you had simulator training in MIA and they said you have to use the jumpseat to get there as they would not buy you a ticket. Clear violation that could have serious ramifications, as MDan pointed out.

 

[flyguppy]

Thank you Dan.

From ALPA's Policy Manual..............................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A. JUMPSEAT FRAUD AND ABUSE

1. A fraudulent jumpseat rider is an individual attempting to gain access to a flight deck by knowingly being deceptive. Counterfeit IDs, failure of medical certificate standards or dismissal by the presented employer constitute fraudulent representation.

An abuse of the jumpseat privilege includes, but is not limited to, individuals revenue positioning at company request for reasons other than commuting to or from work or on personal business.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Mesa is in CLEAR violation of the last sentence. That is why those that choose to abide by mesa's demand to abuse the jumpseat will be putting their further jumpseat access at risk.

THE ONLY REASON MESA IS DOING THIS IS TO SAVE MONEY BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAP, ANTI-UNION $^#S.

 

[Dan Roman]

If those guys are based there now it's not much different than what I did when transferring to a new domicile. You're always on your own to get to your domicile. If you are needed outside your base then the company buys a ticket or provides positive space on your own carrier.

I'm beating a dead horse here but that's the rub. JO is trying to save money by having pilots from 4 diferent domicles get to a mandatory training meeting on other airlines for free.
FTW, I have nothing against the Mesa pilots, they are just trying to build time or pay the bills in hopes of something better that comes along. But allowing JO to abuse the system to save money is not a good idea. I want to make it clear that this is nothing personal. I'll always carry Mesa jumpseaters (already have PHX-HNL) but not to HNL for this meeting. Those of you not in Hawaii understandably are unaware of what's been going on. But here in Hawaii we have been witness to JO coming over here very beligerantly trying to bully his way into a shrinking market (inter-island) by lying in the press and breaking the law. He has boasted he will put either AQ/HAL out of business and said he is willing to operate at a loss for a long time to do it. I can't speak for AQ (but I know they now have a very wealthy owner so I'm sure they will be OK) but I know HAL has 150 mil unrestricterd cash and a very sophisticated yield management system. Inter-island is a small part of our business, buy I resent the attacks made by JO both verbally and by some of his shady business practices. There are over 6000 HAL/AQ employees in Hawaii that have served this state well. We all resent someone who boasts that he is willing to operate at loss just to hurt us. It's not the pilots fault, but I have no intention of helping JO save money.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

After re-reading this thread I would like to retract my previous comments. The meeting is in HNL but the pilots are domiciled at outstations. Since no pilot is based in HNL it is Mesa's responsibility to get their pilots there. This is company business and Mesa pilots should not be asked to jumpseat.

 

[Freight Dog]

AMEN BROTHER!

I'm beating a dead horse here but that's the rub. JO is trying to save money by having pilots from 4 diferent domicles get to a mandatory training meeting on other airlines for free.
FTW, I have nothing against the Mesa pilots, they are just trying to build time or pay the bills in hopes of something better that comes along. But allowing JO to abuse the system to save money is not a good idea. I want to make it clear that this is nothing personal. I'll always carry Mesa jumpseaters (already have PHX-HNL) but not to HNL for this meeting. Those of you not in Hawaii understandably are unaware of what's been going on. But here in Hawaii we have been witness to JO coming over here very beligerantly trying to bully his way into a shrinking market (inter-island) by lying in the press and breaking the law. He has boasted he will put either AQ/HAL out of business and said he is willing to operate at a loss for a long time to do it. I can't speak for AQ (but I know they now have a very wealthy owner so I'm sure they will be OK) but I know HAL has 150 mil unrestricterd cash and a very sophisticated yield management system. Inter-island is a small part of our business, buy I resent the attacks made by JO both verbally and by some of his shady business practices. There are over 6000 HAL/AQ employees in Hawaii that have served this state well. We all resent someone who boasts that he is willing to operate at loss just to hurt us. It's not the pilots fault, but I have no intention of helping JO save money.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

We all resent someone who boasts that he is willing to operate at loss just to hurt us. It's not the pilots fault, but I have no intention of helping JO save money.

This practice is called "predatory", and is illegal in this industry. Send JO packing. He must have had his ego popped when he wasn't able to buy AQ at a steal. Whaaaaa

 

[mdanno808]

So any Mesa guy's/gal's have any updates on whether or not travel will be provided by the company?

​

 

[sniper]

fwiw, all the jumpseat coordinators involved (ha, aq, mesa, and alpa national) are aware of this situation and they are all in agreement that this is a violation of the alpa jumpseat policy.

the mesa jumpseat coordinator has pledged to do what he can to ensure that the company provides positive space travel and none of his pilots abuse the jumpseat.



.

You are so full of ****.

Make up more **** to justify your anti Mesa thoughts.

 

[dash8driver]

You are so full of ****.

Make up more **** to justify your anti Mesa thoughts.

oh now you're psychic? no anti-mesa thoughts here, just anti-JO. i have many friends there. is asking people to do the right thing too much to ask?

so if you say its full of ****, you must be saying that LC and JA were lying to HAL, AQ coordinators and ALPA national? is that true?

why dont you get educated instead of making an ass out of yourself. i have been privy to communications between the coordinators. why dont you call LC or JA and ask him yourself. maybe next time you should check your facts first, that way you wont make yourself look like such an idiot again.



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[Dan Roman]

I started another string that proves what dash8 said is true, seems like you owe him an apology sniper.

 

[mdanno808]

I started another string that proves what dash8 said is true, seems like you owe him an apology sniper.

He's pretty much proven (in this and previous posts) that he doesn't have a clue. Just leave him alone before he starts spouting off about D8D being part of the USAir system again.

BTW it was good seeing you the other day. Hopefully I'll get the chance to fly with you in a year or two.



​

 

[Dan Roman]

Me too, furloughes always seem to last forever, but soon it will be a distant memory!

 

[dash8driver]

I started another string that proves what dash8 said is true, seems like you owe him an apology sniper.

not going to happen. he just likes to blurt out uneducated guesses whenever he gets up the courage. not much of a sniper. perhaps he should change his name to "pot-shot".

if there's any other doubt, here's a message straight from JA himself:

We are working very closely with all of the JS coordinators to prevent abuse of the jumpseat and Hawaii is no exception.

Because of the dynamics of the new operation, this has specifically taken much of our JS Coordinator's time (CD) and we believe we have ironed out the kinks.

Thanks to our fellow pilots at Aloha (LH) and Hawaiian for maintaining professionalism and working through any issues that have been brought up.

For everyone else, please maintain professionalism on these boards. In a jumpseat war, no one wins and some of the chatter is clearly unprofessional and designed to create conflict.

We have addressed our (MAG ALPA's) concerns with management, and they have addressed them in short order so as not to put a pilot in the position of violating ALPA jumpseat policy.

The jumpseat is not a tool to inflict political agendas.

Again, I thank everyone for their continued professionalism and not allowing themselves to be sucked into a fruitless game that has no winners.

JA

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[mdanno808]

Mesa offers to pay passenger to fly interisland flights

The one-way promotions are good through Friday

David Segal
[email protected]​

​

Mesa Air Group Inc.’s new airline go!, which shook up the interisland market with its $39 one-way fares, sprung another surprise this morning by offering to pay passengers to fly and get to know Go! Go will pay passengers $6.09 to promote their service starting on 6-09-2006.
The fare was available for reservation beginning at noon today through 11:59 p.m. on Friday — the day it begins its new interisland service — or until the special tickets are sold out.
Mesa said that the special tickets will be valid for travel from Friday through July 9 between Honolulu and Lihue, Kahului or Kona. They also will be usable between Honolulu and Hilo starting June 30, when Mesa begins service to that city, through July 9.
The special tickets will be paid when the passenger completes the flight and no changes will be allowed with the special fare. Seats may not be available on all flights.
Tickets can be reserved on the airline’s Web site, www.iflygo.com, or by calling 1-888-iflygo2 (1-888-435-9462.)
“Interisland fares have been too high for too long, and go! is here to make a change,” said Jonathan Ornstein, chairman and chief executive officer of Mesa. with this special promotion, we hope to give everyone the chance to fly go! and have the opportunity to visit friends and family with this promtion. This seems the only way to get people on our flights. The locals airlines are not playing ball, I expect them to bow to me and just get out of the way and let me destroy them. Don’t they know who they are dealing with? Said JO. For those that is worried about Mesa and our shareholders, as soon as we dump one of the local carrier will jack up the price so I can buy a nice house in Hawaii Kai.
Mesa also announced today that it signed a sponsorship agreement with a local band, Big Every Time, also known as BET. The band’s South Pacific reggae/hip-hop-style music, will become the airline’s corporate sound and will be played on flights. The voices of band members will also be heard doing greetings and giving directions on board the aircraft.
Mesa, which announced in September it was going to be entering the Hawaii market with 50-seat Bombardier CRJ-200s, will begin operating out of Honolulu Airport’s commuter terminal with 32 daily flights between Honolulu and Lihue, Kahului and Kona.
It will increase service to 62 daily flights with four aircraft starting June 30, when it begins flying between Honolulu and Hilo.

 

[Whale Rider]

Wow! Could this be the start of the "Profeesional Pax" era??? Hahahaha! :laugh:

 

[igneousy2]

Let's just say what is really going on here in Hawaii...

The Hawaii Airlines (Island Air, Hawaiian, Aloha) are p**sed off about Mesa coming out to Hawaii. The pilot's, not comfortable without being in control, feel the need to do SOMETHING. Do they really think that JO will go back to his board and say " you know we are making a ton of money in Hawaii, but OUR PILOTS ARE BEING DENIED JUMPSEATS!" Let's pack up and go home!

If I let a Mesa pilot, that may or not be, abusing my companies jumpseat policy putting my jumpseat priviledges in jeopardy. The danger is Mesa's, they will have their jumpseat priviledges revoked...not me.

It is the Mesa pilot's fight to tell their companies that they must have positive space tickes to and from meetings...I'm not the one having to fly standby to a meeting in HNL or whereever.

Hawaiian, Aloha, and most sadly, certain Island Air pilots are advocating starting a jumpseat war with Mesa. For most of the homebodies that never leave the state it won't matter.

WAKE UP!!! Mesa has more flights (and money) than Hawaiian, Aloha, and Island Air COMBINED. Who do you really think is going to be hurt by continuing down this path. You will have deep regrets when you are trying to get somewhere that only Mesa flys to.

Ig's Jumpseat Policy (in the cabin since we aren't CASS anyway):

If you can get past the gate agent or are smart enough to hunt me down, you can ride on a jumpseat pass.

I really don't give a dang if you're from AQ, UA, Mesa, Horizon, Molokai Air Shuttle, or George's Aviation.

I don't care why you are traveling, in fact I will not even ask except perhaps to make conversation.

I don't care what you are wearing. As long as you treated everyone (gate agents, etc.) politely....You're on if there is a seat.

I will not allow a vocal few of my fellow pilots reduce my job to that of the "jumpseat police"

To all you Mesa guys...don't let these posts scare you, if you get denied by one of our misguided Island Air souls, try the next flight, chances are the next Captain will let you fly. I hope that when I am trying to jumpseat you will forgive the indiscretions of my comrades and allow me your jumpseat.

I've been through a jumpseat war...and it's just like real war...there are only losers.

Later.

 

[32LT10]

I've been through a jumpseat war...and it's just like real war...there are only losers.

Later.

When did jumpesating become a right? You are not guaranteed a seat as a jumpseater. You should still ride a Captains discretion. He signed for the plane, it is his choice not your's as to whether or not you ride. Perhaps your Mesaism about "they should be careful as they may want to ride mesa someday!!!" is lame. I have a feeling most people would avoid riding on a Mesa plane at all cost. Unless you are the only airline servicing somewhere and it did not have roads as an alternate then perhaps I would consider riding your airline. But I think staying home would be a better option than riding on the dangerous skies of mesa.

That is one of the problems with you kids in the industry today. You think everything is an entitlement (jumpseat) It isn't. There were times when jumpseats were not given as freely as they are today and you had to show some type of decorum and respect to those that were giving you a ride. Today you people think you can slink on without saying hello or thank you and believe that it is "COOOOOL DUUUUUUDE". When are you guys going to grow up? When you stop playing airline pilot and become one?

 

[tomcash]

32LT10 for President!

 

[dash8driver]

Let's just say what is really going on here in Hawaii...

ok great. now why dont you go give that speech to Go!'s corporate offices. they have an official policy at the moment not to take HA, AQ, or WP jumpseaters. at least thats the story from the station manager and gate agent.

wheeeeeeeeeeee



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[mdanno808]

You obviously didn't read the previous posts which seemed to suggest that things had been worked out between the groups J/S coordinators.

 

[Freight Dog]

Hawaiian, Aloha, and most sadly, certain Island Air pilots are advocating starting a jumpseat war with Mesa.

Don't let the few hot-heads confuse you. The big hoopla was about Mesa's CP memo which implied that Mesa pilots would have to jumpseat on other carriers to a mandatory company training event. That would be like WP asking you to jumpseat on other airlines to Seattle for your sim training.

 

[dash8driver]

You obviously didn't read the previous posts which seemed to suggest that things had been worked out between the groups J/S coordinators.

too much work for the lazy drive-bys.




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[igneousy2]

You obviously didn't read the previous posts which seemed to suggest that things had been worked out between the groups J/S coordinators.

No, I did, perhaps cooler heads have prevailed regarding this specific meeting, and as dash8driver stated, he had no problem taking jumpseaters outside of this meeting, that's cool, I have no problem with that. I don't think this has been resolved by any stretch of the immagination.

I see it everyday at work. I hear comments on the crew vans. Captains are telling gate agents that it is our policy not to take Mesa jumpseaters. I heard a Captain state that he was looking forward to slowing down in the channel if he heard a Mesa plane coming in behind him in an effort to make them go-around...no pun intended.



Anyway, I hope these people will grow up soon.

Later