Heads up for anyone flying to Hawaii.

[Dan Roman]

Please be aware that Mesa's CEO is attempting to abuse the non-rev/jumpseat system. This is unaceptable for many reasons, this is not an attack on the Mesa pilots, but an oppurtunity to provide them more ammunition in dealing with a very anti-labor CEO. PLEASE DO NOT CARRY ANY MESA JUMPSEATERS TO HAWAII IN EARLY JUNE. THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THERE ON COMPANY BUSINESS FOR FREE. THEY ARE NOT BEING PROVIDED A PAID MOVE.
Essentially their CEO has said they need to relocate to Hawaii on their own and are not being provided transportation. This is an abuse of the jumpseat and cannot be tolerated.

 

[atafan]

PLEASE DO NOT CARRY ANY MESA JUMPSEATERS TO HAWAII IN EARLY JUNE. THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THERE ON COMPANY BUSINESS FOR FREE. THEY ARE NOT BEING PROVIDED A PAID MOVE.

Who says that the Company is required to provide transportation? YOU.

I'm not supporting Mesa's company policies but if that is their policy then when they travel to Hawaii it is not on Company business. Why kick other pilot's in the lower two just because you don't agree with their Company's policy?

ATA has many flights to Hawaii and Mesa pilots are always welcomed.

 

[Dan Roman]

Here's the memo that has started it all.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=80105

It's quite simple, according to ALPA policy, the jumpseat is not to be used for company business IE relocating crews to fly.
I have nothing against the Mesa pilots personally. In fact once they are relocated I'll carry them on my J/S. But that memo is out of line and has stirred enough controversy that I believe we should do all we can to counter abuses of the system by such an anti-labor CEO.

 

[PreRVSM]

It's quite simple, according to ALPA policy, the jumpseat is not to be used for company business IE relocating crews to fly.
.

Don't all pilots use jumpseating to get to work, or try to get a new job????

Jim

 

[Dan Roman]

Don't all pilots use jumpseating to get to work, or try to get a new job????

Jim

That's fine, different deal here. This is Mesa relocating crews to Hawaii. Company business.

 

[dooork]

It is not company travel. They are tring to get to base to start work. DUMASS!

 

[cargoflyr69]

Danny Boy,

One question for ya... Were these Mesa pilots displaced to the new Hawaii bases or did they Bid for them on their own free will?

If displaced and they are being required to J/s to their new assignment then i call BS right along with you, but if they wanted to go their on their own its no different than you or I being a traditional commuter. Thats what the jumpseat is for. Now the hard part, how can you differentiate between the two?

Don't be a jumpseat Nazi... its bad Karma!

 

[Dan Roman]

Danny Boy,

One question for ya... Were these Mesa pilots displaced to the new Hawaii bases or did they Bid for them on their own free will?

If displaced and they are being required to J/s to their new assignment then i call BS right along with you, but if they wanted to go their on their own its no different than you or I being a traditional commuter. Thats what the jumpseat is for. Now the hard part, how can you differentiate between the two?

Don't be a jumpseat Nazi... its bad Karma!

Good points and you probably wouldn't guess it but I'm not a jumpseat nazi. I do everything I can to help fellow pilots get to were they are going. I've already carried two Mesa jumpseaters between PHX and HNL.
As far as being displaced or not, these guys are essentially being told to be at a company meeting at a certain date and use the jumpseat if you have to to get there. Seems like abuse to me. The correct thing to do would be get them business travel passes on USAir as they have plenty of flights to Hawaii out of PHX. If a carrier told a pilot that he has sim training in say DEN and was told to use the jumpseat on another carrier to get there, that is a clear abuse and would get that company in hot water. I see this as the same thing. I am though, keeping an open mind. I'm curious to everyone elses reaction as I'm someone biased, I work for HAL.

 

[atafan]

Many times travel is arranged by the Company for me between let's say MDW - ATL, let's also say I live in DFW but based in MDW. I would rather JS to ATL from DFW, my home, rather than take the Company positioning from MDW.

Does that make me a jumpseat violator in your opinion?

 

[TWA Dude]

This is simple. There's two seperate issues: the evil JO and the hapless Mesa pilots. The pilots are simply trying to get to work on their own time. Please don't deny them the JS. "Company Business" would be a space-positive JS and they don't have that ability on any carrier but their own.

Please, people, NEVER use the JS as a political weapon. It only harms us all.

 

[Dan Roman]

Many times travel is arranged by the Company for me between let's say MDW - ATL, let's also say I live in DFW but based in MDW. I would rather JS to ATL from DFW, my home, rather than take the Company positioning from MDW.

Does that make me a jumpseat violator in your opinion?

Absolutly not, the key words in your statement "travel is arranged by the company". If ATA said be in MDY to fly a trip and use whatever jumpseat you can to get there to save us money, THAT would be a clear violation.

 

[tyuwerty]

If I bid ORD as a base, but I live in PHX it is my responsibility to get to ORD. Jumpseating is legal.

If I am told to be at a manadatory company meeting in my ORD base on a specific date after my bid award. Again, it is my responsibility. Jumpseating is legal.

That is exactly what they are asking of their crews in HNL:

"Remember per our CBA your award was a voluntary bid and you are responsible for your own move"

What is the problem here? It is a base they voluntarily bid???

Yes their company would be responsible to get the crews from LIH, and OGG to HNL, not from the mainland though.

Why does everyone try to make more out of small issues than there really is?

 

[sgu]

I'd just like to see the house the crews will all be living at w/ those wages...

 

[mdanno808]

From another thread on the same subject

islandhopper vbmenu_register("postmenu_1014958", true);
We grew here u flew here

[URL="http://forums.flightinfo.com/customavatars/avatar9263_7.gif"]http://forums.flightinfo.com/customavatars/avatar9263_7.gif[/URL]

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 574
Civ/Mil: civ
A/C Flown: paper mostly
Ratings: ATP
Curr Position: in da barrel
Total Time: 3500
Posts: 574


Quote:
Originally Posted by Soverytired
All the lint in my front pockets and 3 hairs from my ball-sack?


Are you sure the three hairs are your own? Either way i'll pass your stakes are far too high for me.

here's a freebie then.

"HAWAII" is not a base much in the same way ARIZONA or PENNSYLVANIA are not bases. Your pilots are being based on the outer islands.

We know JO thinks all our base are already belong to him now but until he actually takes over Hawaii, he needs to buy his pilots tickets to get to Honolulu and stop trying to waste all our fuel hauling your pilots around for free.

Anything else you want to argue about this morning?

Before you edit this post also. Here is a copy.

HAWAII is a State, (some say a "sovereign nation" without a King). Domiciles are cities. You and JO can't just make the entire State of Hawaii a base. The State of Hawaii stretches for over 2000 miles from Hilo to Midway and almost takes up as much space on a map as the entire continental USA. Mesa made 5 cities on 4 islands BASES for Go! in Hawaii. Hilo and Kona are on the same island, not Honolulu.
.



Soverytired vbmenu_register("postmenu_1015079", true);
Registered User

[URL="http://forums.flightinfo.com/customavatars/avatar27400_2.gif"]http://forums.flightinfo.com/customavatars/avatar27400_2.gif[/URL]

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Civ/Mil: STOMP
A/C Flown: T-Rex
Ratings: MILF
Total Time: 999999
Posts: 194


Ongoing battle between the mental midgets continues ad nauseum . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandhopper
Are you sure the three hairs are your own? Either way i'll pass your stakes are far too high for me.

here's a freebie then.

"HAWAII" is not a base much in the same way ARIZONA or PENNSYLVANIA are not bases. Your pilots are being based on the outer islands.

We know JO thinks all our base are already belong to him now but until he actually takes over Hawaii, he needs to buy his pilots tickets to get to Honolulu and stop trying to waste all our fuel hauling your pilots around for free.

Anything else you want to argue about this morning?



Hmm. As much as it kills me to admit it, you have a point.

Assuming the "training event" takes place in HNL, pilots and crews based in OGG and LIH should have company provided travel to HNL. As GO service will not be up and running yet, Mesa should buy tickets on Island Air, Aloha, or Hawaiian to get them there.

I hope you charge them full price!

 

[dash8driver]

fwiw, all the jumpseat coordinators involved (ha, aq, mesa, and alpa national) are aware of this situation and they are all in agreement that this is a violation of the alpa jumpseat policy.

the mesa jumpseat coordinator has pledged to do what he can to ensure that the company provides positive space travel and none of his pilots abuse the jumpseat.



.

 

[Poahi]

fwiw, all the jumpseat coordinators involved (ha, aq, mesa, and alpa national) are aware of this situation and they are all in agreement that this is a violation of the alpa jumpseat policy.

the mesa jumpseat coordinator has pledged to do what he can to ensure that the company provides positive space travel and none of his pilots abuse the jumpseat.



.

That may be true, but ALPA national is not saying to deny the jumpseat. The jumpseat is not a personal weapon and punishing Mesa pilots will not change the way Mesa is operated.

 

[dash8driver]

preventing people from violating alpa jumpseat policy is not using it as a personal weapon. personal weapon would involve enforcing a personal agenda, enforcing the rules is not personal. if the captain determines that someone is attempting unauthorized use of the jumpseat, its his duty to enforce the rules.

people violating the alpa jumpseat policy jeopardize the jumpseat privileges for the rest of their own pilot group. trying to portray it as punishing the mesa pilots because they dont have the nads to stand up for whats proper is weak at best. its about time that people start doing the right thing instead of throwing a pity party and asking for exceptions to the rule.



.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Poahi]

if the captain determines that someone is attempting unauthorized use of the jumpseat, its his duty to enforce the rules.
.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Not true.

From another forum and I believe it is accurate:

During these times of airline turmoil, airlines may be tempted to place artificial restrictions -- specifically, those that do not involve safety concerns -- on using jumpseats. ALPA strongly disagrees with such restrictions and has always maintained that jumpseats should be off limits to any type of dispute that is not related to safety.[See the attached file]

ALPA's jumpseat policy, contained in Section 115 of the ALPA Administrative Manual, speaks directly to this subject: "ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.

"Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing, or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines, or other unions."

ALPA's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, says, "Using jumpseats to retaliate against an individual, pilot group, or company is not only wrong. It could also result in violations of the Railway Labor Act, if pilots took those actions to harm a company during collective bargaining." Gigantic fines could be levied against a pilot group if its members misused jumpseats in this way.

"The jumpseat is a mutually beneficial tool that helps airlines and pilots by enhancing safety, security, and efficiency," Capt. Woerth noted. "Both parties must guard against any activities that may damage the viability of that invaluable resource."

End Quote.

Source: http://forums.airlinepilotcentral.com/archive/index.php/t-1160.html

ALPA does not endorse that type of "enforcement".

 

[dash8driver]

uhh.. this is not a dispute between individuals or pilot groups. its abuse of the jumpseat priviledge. completely different.. nice attempt at a spin tho.

please show me where it says that having a crappy ceo is an excuse to break the rules.

fortunately alpa national and the jumpseat coordinators at all 3 airlines are not as complacent. they all are in agreement on this and are working to ensure that the proper prodecures are followed (ie you get a ticket).



.

 

[dash8driver]

Not true.

actually it is true.

by your logic, i could jumpseat in bare feet and speedos and the captain couldnt deny me because he's not supposed to enforce the rules.

maybe this will help.

what you're citing refers to denying people jumpseats who are not attempting to break the rules or otherwise legitimate jumpseat riders because the pilot has some personal agenda against the person or company. this has nothing to do with denying jumpseaters who are attempting to break the rules and are not in accordance with the jumpseat policy.

using the jumpseat to travel on company business is not authorized, not legitimate and its an abuse of the priviledge. its within the captains rights, its his duty, to ensure that only authorized personnel use the jumpseat.



.

 

["Luke"]

This bickering is useless; I'll wait and see what ALPA says about it.

 

[Longhorn]

So whats to say that they dont try to jumpseat on a non-alpa operator to hawaii? In reality, they should be bought a pass to get out there by Mesa, unless it was their choice to go there. In that case, they should buy a pass or ticket on their own dime. Mesa is not obligated to buy them a ticket to the islands if they bid for the base and were awarded it. Mesa should give them a few moving days but that is about it. As for them jumpseating, what are you going to do, ask them if they are moving there on that flight? How can you determine who is on their initial move vs. just going home for the week or visiting the mainland? If you cant determine who is jumpseating for work, for moving or for pleasure than you should let them all on until your airline or union says differently. There is no need to make these guys lives even harder if you cant say for sure what their jumpseating purpose it.

 

[dhc8drvr]

This is simply JO/Mesa, business as usual. They also do not get move days to transition to the new domicile, so you could be flying IAD-PHL today, and be expected to move your ass to Hawaii tommorow and operate a flight (unless things have changed since I left). JO will not fork over a dime unless it is wrenched from his hands. God, man I really forgot how much I despise that smug little man.

Help these guys catch a ride to work while the jumpseat guys work out the details, they put up with enough crap on a daily basis.

 

["Luke"]

.........

 

[Poahi]

If anyone has a question about when they should refuse a jumpseat to anyone and they are an ALPA carrier, please check with your ALPA jumpseat chair. As with many ALPA carriers, you may also be required to complete additional paperwork for refusing a jumpseat.

 

[dash8driver]

if anyone is planning on abusing the jumpseat priviledge, please think twice since you may be about to ruin it for the rest of your pilot group.



.

 

[Longhorn]

Dont get me wrong... I agree 100% that the jumpseat should NOT be used for company buisness. If it is, then the punishment should come from either the pilots union or company in the case of a non-union company, not the individual captain on the flight. The issue is how will you determine who is using for company buisness vs personal use. I dont know the answer to that. I do hope that Mesa treats their crewmembers right and does not force them into that situation in the first place.

 

[koko nw]

As with many ALPA carriers, you may also be required to complete additional paperwork for refusing a jumpseat.

UGTBSM? Jumpseat's are a courtesy not a RIGHT. It's the Captains poragative if your hiney gets to sit up front not YOU or ALPO.

When I jumpseat I've always respectfully asked the Captain for the jumpseat, although never denied would never assume that the jumpseat was mine to be had.

 

[hawaii_boy]

Don't go here the haole are treated very badly here.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I can't stand JO and his minions but this has got me confused. When I transferred domiciles at the beginning of the year (voluntarily just like those YV guys) the company gave me 4 days free of duty. I was a commuter back then so when my last trip was done I jumpseated home. At some point I was required to start a trip at my new base. I'm not seeing a huge difference here. Are you guys implying it's something different because of the meeting as opposed to a regular trip? Seems like another YV bash which is fine but don't bring the jumpseat into debate. If those guys are based there now it's not much different than what I did when transferring to a new domicile. You're always on your own to get to your domicile. If you are needed outside your base then the company buys a ticket or provides positive space on your own carrier.