**HEADLINE SKYWEST to fly USAir RJs***

[darling pretty]

revenue WITH the risk

metro sheriff,

i have to disagree with you about the fee for departure method. You are correct that Delta assumes no risk in the day to day operations, but Skywest receives the same flat rate if they fly one or fifty passengers. There is no incentive to lure traffic because you still end up with the same amount of money.

With the WO's all the money stays in one place and you don't lose if the load factor drops below a certain percentage.

I believe with the block hour crisis at hand that ASA and Comair will move westward and Delta will reduce dependance on Skywest and eventually Eagle.

All of this, of course, is contingent on the DALPA grievance. If DALPA loses welcome to the largest Boeing parking lot.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Has anyone heard about the DALPA grievance outcome? Is DALPA and Delta renegotiating something new as it was supposed to be over last week?

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: revenue WITH the risk

metro sheriff,

i have to disagree with you about the fee for departure method. You are correct that Delta assumes no risk in the day to day operations, but Skywest receives the same flat rate if they fly one or fifty passengers. There is no incentive to lure traffic because you still end up with the same amount of money.

With the WO's all the money stays in one place and you don't lose if the load factor drops below a certain percentage.

I believe with the block hour crisis at hand that ASA and Comair will move westward and Delta will reduce dependance on Skywest and eventually Eagle.

All of this, of course, is contingent on the DALPA grievance. If DALPA loses welcome to the largest Boeing parking lot.

Darling,

I agree that there is SOME risk. The fee for departure arrangements just allow Delta to expand DCI service without a huge outlay of cash, as the cost of the operation falls to the contract carrier. My point was that the contract carriers, as I understand it, assume the debt for the a/c, payroll for crew, insurance etc.

If, pending the outcome of the DALPA grievance, Big D is forced to trim it's DCI block hours, they can more easily, and at lower cost, cancel an at-will contract and not assume the burden of debt service on a/c that they are contractually prohibited (scoped) from flying. Parking WO a/c seems an expensive proposition, which is PART of the reason the lions share of recent DCI growth has gone to the contract carriers, IMO.

 

[surfnole]

Delta does not SHARE any profit with Skywest, they pay them a fee per departure. Revenue without the risk.

True.

However my point is that the regional market is one of few profitable segments in the industry. In fact, its probably a cash cow.

Delta may be looking at the addtional profit it could make if it took over the Skywest market by expanding ASA and Comair.

Perhaps the risk of owning additional RJs is outweighed by the reward of additional profits. I don't know.

But..

1) Why would Delta sell its share in Skywest stock unless it was planning on making a run on the company (not sure if it is true they sold the stock).

2) Skywest could be in a precarious position in that it is one of the few, large independent regionals left. Its somewhat at the mercy of Delta's good will.

I am not an industry expert, so I could be way off base....but I can't help thinking that Delta would be looking to completely take over.

 

[FlyingSig]

they said 'no', now they are trying to get their furloughed pilots into what would be 'our' jet's. what makes them think we'll accept it over them?

Just curious... with no collective bargaining agreement, just how is it that the SkyWest pilot group could say no? Legally, that is..

 

[FlyingSig]

Why would Delta sell its share in Skywest stock unless it was planning on making a run on the company (not sure if it is true they sold the stock).

It's true.

ATLANTA, Oct 12, 2001 -- Delta Air Lines (NYSEAL) today reported that it has sold its stake in SkyWest Airlines (NASDAQ:SKYW). Delta sold 6.2 million shares of SkyWest common stock worth $125 million in a block trade pursuant to the Securities and Exchange Commission’s Rule 144. "Delta has an excellent relationship with our partner SkyWest," said M. Michele Burns, Delta’s executive vice president and chief financial officer. "This transaction in no way changes our operating relationship." ... from delta.com

Why? To raise cash at a time when the company was burning $8-10 million a day.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

It is true that SkyWest, along with Mesa, Chautauqua and TSA are working on an RJ deal with USAir. USAir currently has about 60 RJs and wants to add about 430, that's right, 430 more!!!

TSA and Chautauqua are rumoured to be looking at getting about 100 RJs EACH! USAir furloughees will be given the opportunity to fill 1/2 of the seats.

At TSA, they crew about 4 crews/plane. The USAir pilots will be put on the bottom of the seniority list, and will function exactly as newhires, except for 2 things. They will be able to bid Capt right away, because they'll have the hours to hold a Capt slot, and they'll be paid at the going TSA rate for their longevity at USAir. So, if they've been at USAir for 8 years, and are a Capt at TSA, they will get TSA's 8 Yr. Capt's pay.

USAir anticipates that not all of its furloughees will accept a seat, so, if these large numbers hold up, all of the TSA furloughees (& poolies) and the Chautauqua firees should be able to get back in the cockpit.

The details are still being hammered out. Chautauqua pilots are said to be voting on it soon. TSA's agreement is supposed to be completed in under a month, and they currently have top mgmt in Brazil right now.

9.11 sure changed things a lot!!!

Especially if you're furloughed (like me), or looking for a job, hang in there and good luck!!!

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[KFFA]

I think some of you out there are missing my point of this.

I wanted to get this news out there because I am looking for information. Personaly I have both pro's and con's to this deal and was looking for some insight. USAir doesn't fly much in the West and I don't really know a whole lot about them.

SkyWest is in an unusaual spot. Because we are not union things happen differently then most other airlines. Sometimes when decisions are made the thought of What is the Union response going to be? or What is Managments next move going to be doesnt really exist to a point at SkyWest. I may be a little in fantasy land but it is refreshing at times to know this. SkyWest is in a tuff situation right now because United is up in the air?!? Will they make it through the summer or are the going to file ch. 11 and reorganize. Somtimes it is time to wipe the board and start over.

The two sides of Union and Mangment is so deeply diveded that it looks to be unworkable. And if this does happen then what would SkyWest or for that matter ACA or AirWisky do? Then you have Delta and there relationship with Comair and ASA vs SkyWest. Sometimes I wonder do they play favorites or what??? I think SkyWest puts out a great product and thats why Delta has asked us to fly to DFW and further East. The same goes for United. And I think this is also the reason why USAir has come to us. I am not saying anybody else doesn't also put out a great product. Analogy: Toyota vs Nissian vs Honda

Again I am looking to all of you out there for some honest non-bashing this airline or that opinions. Just what would you vote if they came to your airline and you knew some of your furloghed buddy's would come back and new growth for you. Comair if United came to you to fly out West with this type of proposal would you take it? Or ASA if Horizon came to you to fly in the North East would you take it? etc.

Thanks

KFFA
"The field is white all ready to be harvested"

 

[KFFA]

Cliff,

The deal sounds alot like ours also. But the USAir guys cann't fly into our Delta or United sytsem so they wont effect us that are all ready here. Also the USAir pilots need to go through an interview and written tests and training like any new pilot off the street. just that they will have a sr. # at SkyWest and still retain there one at USAir. What makes it a little odd for us though is that will they still be ALPA members or not??? Capt is not union (skywest pilot and the FO is a union guy (usair guy) wont that be intresting combo some flight?

 

[Saluki Dawg]

KFFA,

To answer your question, the USAir pilots will still be ALPA members, but will be working for a non-ALPA carrier. Second, Skywest needs a union of somekind on property now more than ever. This deal is a really bad deal for any airline that accepts it, plain and simple. If you guys had a union on property right now, you might have a chance of either stopping this deal or at least protecting your current pilots on property from being bumped out of their seats. Right now I don't think there is anything that you are going to be able to do about it. If Skywest Management has made up their minds that this deal with USAir is going to happen then that's it. I hope that it works out for you guys.

 

[SkwPilot]

What's the sentiment at TSA, Mesa and Chataqua with regards to the US Airways proposal?

We are having a major struggle with the placing of newhire pilots right into the left seat.

What is the opinion of other regionals (ASA, Comair, Eagle, CoEx)?

In my opinion, this is a very serious precedent-setting situation.

 

[Marko Ramius]

It's precedent setting in that it's being negoitated between some carriers ALPA reps and regional airlines management, but the idea of street captains certainly isn't unprecedented. Maybe it is at your carrier, but carriers such as Express I, Great Lakes, UFS, Chicago Express, and probably a bunch more that I am missing have hired street captains before.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

What are the sentiments at the regionals re: USAir RJ proposal?

Overall, at TSA it's positive. We are slowly losing our AA feed, and could lose it all. USAir may be the only option. We still have about 1/4 of our pilots on furlough, with a pool behind them. We (the furloughees) were supposed to fly new jets for AA, and now it looks like the only near-term (and maybe THE ONLY) chance to get off furlough is the USAir deal.

From listening to the Chautauqua MEC hotline, they (the MEC) is positive about it. They are putting it to a vote. I don't know about MESA.

It is new and different, and will definitely change things, but this is one effect exarcebated (it means increased from-I had to look up the spelling in the dictionary) because of the 9.11 attacks.

I hope it works out, and helps those pilots on the sidelines to get back in the cockpit sooner.

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[meanstreak]

Any contract airline that allows these mainline guys to infiltrate their seniority list is a scab airline in my opinion. Let those greedy mainline pilots figure out their own mess for their past greedy mistakes. They know if US Airways goes bankrupt none of those guys will be flying RJ's. It's funny before Sept. 11 most mainline guys said they would never fly RJ's on their property, but look now, all of a sudden they would love to fly them. And screw the wholly owneds. We have no plans of even getting in on the RJ deal that I know of, why would we. US Airways has no deliveries of any planes in 2003 and 2004, Do you honestly think these guys are going to be called back at anytime soon, if at all. They also plan on furloughing all the way back to Jan 2003 right now. Think about it guys (contract carriers), you guys are fools if you let them have jobs just to get RJ's.

 

[Marko Ramius]

I was unaware that there was a strike going on at any of these carriers, and that the UsAirways furloughees were crossing the picket line. Why is it that so many people have changed the definition of the word scab as it pertains to unions? Just because you really don't like someone or what they are doing, it doesn't make them a scab.

 

[meanstreak]

I guess your right, they probably aren't scabs. It's funny though how US Airways said they would never fly RJ's on their property before and now they are crying to fly them. Now they are good enough to fly RJ's but weren't before.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I do think it's very Alanis Morisette ("Ironic") that many of these very same "I'm a HEAVY JET pilot flying for a MAJOR airline" guys who said they would never fly one of those puny RJs, are now clamoring for a spot with a regional airline.

I just flew home on UAL on Wed. I was talking with the passenger sitting next to me about the current airline situation. He remarked, "Why don't the airlines buy a number of different sizes of jets, and fly whichever size is "right" into the market that they need it?"

Well, golly jeepers-creepers, us lowly RJ pilots have never thought of something like that, like a one-list with a sliding pay-scale where pilot pay corresponds to the possible revenue generation of the aircraft that they're flying, with everyone working for the same goals and the same company.

It's too simple.

Hoping to get back in the cockpit soon...

Cliff
GB,WI

PS-I used to fly a "Heavy" jet also...

 

[man-down]

Everyone,

I am a furloughed US Air and ex-TSA pilot. Many of you sound bitter about these possible rj deals that might be happening and I can understand that. I have a few comments.

1) I have heard many mainline pilots say they would fly rj's on main-line pre 9-11. Everyone should want this. More main line jobs are better than more regional jobs (expecially at TSA). Even if you are paid the same rate to fly them at mainline as the regional, your life style is much better; schedueling, ect. that is what we all want. I'd go back to a C-210 if they paid a decent wage and I had more than 2 nights off a week. The issue isn't "how big is your jet?" ; but " how much do you enjoy working for your company?" Obviously we all love our jobs or else we wouldn't put up with TSA, MESA, Great Lakes, ect... for even a few months little lone years.

2) Some of you who refer to main lines as greedy ect. think about this for a minute. We are the pilots who just left the regionals and or military at the most three years ago. not the "peple that treated the WO's like dirt." I do not know much about the history with US Air mainline and the WO's but there is some bad blood between some of them according to these boards.

The people you might end up flying with if this rj deal goes thru, would much rather be flying those jets on mainline and not for a fraction of the pay they will get at TSA, ect. I am guessing you might feel the same way. If it happens this way, everyone should use it to help lift up the regional pay rates. This should have been done years ago, but it hasn't. The money TSA makes is obscene and yet the pilots get embarrased by the pay scales. I know, I was there. It was fun, but I would have liked to been paid more and worked less. Oh, I guess that is why I left for a mainline job (even one that might not be there in 30 years when I retire!) and why you had your app's out prior to 9-11.


3) You can never catagorize a whole group into one nice easy package. Most of the industry sees United as arrogant, AA as the Sky Natazi's Delta as having a chip on their shoulder (right above their nice shinny name tags) and, as I have learned tonight, US Air as being greedy, selfish, and overall just bad people.

Anyone reading this knows that I just insulted many people even though you probably have heard any one of these statements or similar ones in the past. You probably know more than one pilot at each of these airlines who would be more than happy to help you when the time comes for whatever reason, not just getting a job at that carrier.

I type so slow and make so many errors that I have forgotten where I am going with this.

Just remember, we are all basically the same.
We love flying,
we want to get paid as much as we can,
we want as many days off as possible,
we love flexible schedules,
we strive to do the best job possible and take pride in what we do.
This is what makes us pilots.

By the way, many of the furloughed main-line pilots were flying "puny rj's" and I can guarntee you they are not clamoring for a spot with a regional airline. We want main line jobs back, we already had the regional airline job. Besides why work out a deal unless it is a last ditch effort? Our MEC should be negotiating for main line jobs, not regional jobs. If there is an influx of a few hundred rj's just out of the US Air system who do you think will get hired at the regionals, 400 hour CFI's? That might be a dangerous question to ask.

Hopefully we left the regionals a little better off than when we started with them. Aren't we always striving to make things better?


Ready to take some blows,

man-down

 

[surplus1]

We are having a major struggle with the placing of newhire pilots right into the left seat.

What is the opinion of other regionals (ASA, Comair, Eagle, CoEx)?

In my opinion, this is a very serious precedent-setting situation.

Your opinion is absolutely correct. IMO, it would be extremely foolish of you to allow this FOR ANY REASON.

Since you have no union at SKYW you may not be able to do anything about this. If you can STOP it, I highly recommend that you do so IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner.

 

[tintube]

If the final offer from U mec is to put 50 / 50 furlough U pilots and ( in this example: TSA ) TSA pilots and TSA mec approves it, hopefully there is a final wording that says:
U-pilots will be given seniority based on hiredate on TSA ONLY, but they will be awarded protected capt slots for halv of the U pilots hired. ( so of ex 4 pilots-position created by the arrival of 1 airplane: 1 TSA capt and F/O, 1 U capt and F/O )
Give the U-pilots ability to fill more capt seats but only if TSA is not able to upgade their own pilots.
And finally ( one of the most important items ) if U was to go down the drain, that U-pilos would only ( like everybody else ) be able to hold a seat based on their seniority / hiredate at TSA ONLY.
Then if U was to go down, base closures and displacements ( at TSA )would most likely down grade most U-pilots but.......

This is the most fair solution I can think out.