Hawker 800A

[volunteer]

Looking for thoughts on this airplane good, bad, or ugly. Realistic range. Is it a maintenance queen? Great airplane with no complaints?

Thanks.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Check PMs.

 

[Boilermaker]

Good, Bad, but not ugly

Personally I love the Hawker. Granted I haven't flown any other midsize aircraft, but it is a joy to fly. We've logged 5.5-5.7 hours block on it which is too long for me anyway. It is a pig, though, being only good for 350-380 depending on fuel load (380 is a stretch sometimes!). If you stretch it up you will be at .72-.73 until you burn off some fuel. Avionics is a toss up, we have 2 of the dirty 30s and neither is the same. We have an 1984, 1985, and 1989 and the 84 and 85 can have periods of everything going wrong mechanically. The 89 has been a dream so far and has the fully integrated avionics package with the NZ2000 FMS. Overall I could fly an 800 for my career and be very happy! Good luck!

 

[Raskal]

Underpowered
Slow
Good-size cabin
Comfortable cockpit
Honeywell avionics are a must
Did I say underpowered?

 

[volunteer]

Personally I love the Hawker. Granted I haven't flown any other midsize aircraft, but it is a joy to fly. We've logged 5.5-5.7 hours block on it which is too long for me anyway. It is a pig, though, being only good for 350-380 depending on fuel load (380 is a stretch sometimes!). If you stretch it up you will be at .72-.73 until you burn off some fuel. Avionics is a toss up, we have 2 of the dirty 30s and neither is the same. We have an 1984, 1985, and 1989 and the 84 and 85 can have periods of everything going wrong mechanically. The 89 has been a dream so far and has the fully integrated avionics package with the NZ2000 FMS. Overall I could fly an 800 for my career and be very happy! Good luck!

What range are you getting with 6 people?

 

[Boilermaker]

Typical

For us, BOW=16,000 (it is heavy, they range from 15.3 to 16.0),say 6 @180=1080, 200#baggage gives you 17,280. Max TO=27,400, Max Ldg 23,350, so you can take all 10,000# of fuel if you are going to burn 4,000#. (That is about a 2.3 hour flight). We do occasionally run into ZFW (17,520) with our heavier aircraft when we take 9 pax.

Yes, it is very underpowered but it still is a great airplane. Still does well on one engine which I unfortunately found out once! It has rudder bias which was required for cert. and you can practically fly feet on the floor during engine out ops.

Sorry, I ran on. To answer your question you can get all 5.5 hours out of it with 6 pax and enough runway to takeoff at 27,400.

 

[volunteer]

Thanks for the info.

 

[learflyer]

every airplane should have rudder bias! Great system.

 

[Seadogrun]

I was an FO on a trip we flew an 800A for 6.5hrs pulled way back to .65M(or in that neighborhood and FL410. It was many years ago so I'm not positive on the speed, but I am positive on the 6.5hrs and we landed with 1400 reserve. We could normally get 2550NM range without sweating.

 

[heywatchthis]

say 6 @180=1080, 200#baggage .

Yea what kind of people are you taking. Don't get me wrong, I have seen people that weigh 180lbs, but in reality I count every male as 200 with every female at 150 unless after visual contact even that is too low. And if those numbers don't work, then I whip out the scale and ask everyone to step on the scale.

Too many people are taking off over gross weight. Originally our BEW said 13900 and they had the BOW at 14,400. Yea right the pilots alone are over 425 between the two of us let alone all the other stuff on the aircraft. Plus passengers always bring on tons of laptops, brief cases, and crap, and the average male is around 200 anyway.

6 @200 plus 300 baggage, plus 200 for BOW error, is more accurate!

PS. Maybe I just get the chunky ones.

 

[Boilermaker]

Don't shoot the messenger. Just an example for numbers sake. I usually do 200# per male and 140# per female. I know most of our pax and can get really close. As for your BOW, we have the current w/b and a worksheet that we have used to figure a typical BOW (with non-McDonalds eating pilots) so our 15500 -16000 is very accurate. There are always miscellaneous things that can add 20, 40 or 50# but if you're worrying about 50# you're probably overloaded and stuffed out the door anyway.

As with most aircraft the owners/passengers will always bring enough bags for the next higher category of business jet. We have a great standing with FedEx for all of the bags we have to ship to SDL/PHX area. You'd think they'd learn. My bag always makes it to the destination, though!

 

[hawkerflyer]

Put winglets on our 800A about a year ago. Second-segment out of SDL most noticeable improvement. Life's been easy for us, typical load 1 pax, sometimes 2 or 3, rarely full. Longest leg PNE-PDX at 6.2 in the winter, ldg w/ 1500 lbs. SDL-ANC never a problem. Toyed with Hawaii but never did it. Slow, underpowered and to reitirate the previous post, underpowered. Serves our purpose, though.

 

[Dep676]

Some are trying to say once you put winglets on a 800A, it will out perform or perform as well an XP. I am not buying that it will out perform, maybe perform close to an XP. I just do not buy that putting a winglet on it will make up for the under power of the engine.

Anyone know if it compares to an XP once the winglets are on it?

 

[falconpilot]

I saw an 800 with winglets in Hawaii two days ago. (Kona, Hawaii) Im pretty sure it wasn't an XP. Don't the XPs have that funny looking "vortex generator" under the wing that sticks out a bit? If so, the plane a saw was not an XP.

 

[Seadogrun]

Wingleted 800a will out-range an XP. It won't fly faster though.

 

[Dep676]

Wingleted 800a will out-range an XP. It won't fly faster though.

Who cares about range? The plane has enough range as it is, the seats get pretty uncomfortable when you are approaching the 6 hour mark anyway.

 

[Seadogrun]

Who cares about range? The owner that doesn't want to make a fuel stop East coast to west coast.

 

[Dep676]

Well I can match your time, within a few minutes, by going fast and making a fuel stop. Plus that gives the crew a chance to get out and stretch their legs.

I vote for comfort.

 

[Seadogrun]

I did't say the crew cares about range, I said the owner and the one who makes the decisions to purchase an aircraft cares about range. My experience is that even if it only saves a little time owners would much rather not make a stop. If you stop you are burning significantly more fuel and adding a landing and cycle to the engines and apu.