Hawker 800 vs. 800 XP

[sonicyouth]

I fly straight 800s, with and without TR's. The brakes and antiskid are awesome on the Hawker, but it's nice to have TR's going into short and slippery runways to assist, and as a backup. (ex.- EYW, PWK, APF, etc.)

 

[h25b]

Flying late model 800A's with TR's for 3 years I can't think of a single instance where the additional BOW that the TR's added would have made any difference.


Our aircraft were something like 16,000 empty. I think Maw Ramp. was 27,520. So if you top off (10,000#) it leaves you with a useful load of 1520#... So you could put 5 200 lb. pax plus 520 lbs. of bags.

Get the TR's ...

 

[Rick1128]

Flying late model 800A's with TR's for 3 years I can't think of a single instance where the additional BOW that the TR's added would have made any difference.


Our aircraft were something like 16,000 empty. I think Maw Ramp. was 27,520. So if you top off (10,000#) it leaves you with a useful load of 1520#... So you could put 5 200 lb. pax plus 520 lbs. of bags.

Get the TR's ...

It isn't the 5 pax that bites you, it's the 8 or 9 the boss wants to take and insists on going nonstop coast to coast. I flew a 700 with them and it was a conplete waste of useful load. And I believe the weight is more like 600 pounds.

 

[irapilot]

T/Rs are much more penalty on a 700 than on an 800. On a 700 I would not get T/Rs, on an 800 or 800XP - no question, I would get T/Rs.

800XP is a really great a/c, not the fastest, not the best all around rwy performance, not the sexiest, but a sturdy ride that passengers love. I would love to fly one with winglets to see what it feels like and how it performs.

Of course, it is no WSCOD.

 

[h25b]

I took off out of somewhere in FL one summer in an 800A right behind a 700. The difference in performance is night and day. I would agree that in a 700 TR's wouldn't be worth the weight, but in a 800 or 800XP they make no difference and given the choice I would suggest getting a bird with the TR's.

The 700's are performance pigs, and the 800/800XP are entirely different animals (at least performance wise)...

 

[FracCapt]

I took off out of somewhere in FL one summer in an 800A right behind a 700. The difference in performance is night and day. I would agree that in a 700 TR's wouldn't be worth the weight, but in a 800 or 800XP they make no difference and given the choice I would suggest getting a bird with the TR's.

Speaking from 2500 hours in 700/800/800XP lines, with and without TR's, I say avoid the TR's on an 800A and 700(no choice on the 800XP, you get 'em - period). H25B said that their BOW with TR's is 16,000....most 800A's are significantly heavier than that with TR's.

 

[h25b]

Speaking from 2500 hours in 700/800/800XP lines, with and without TR's, I say avoid the TR's on an 800A and 700(no choice on the 800XP, you get 'em - period). H25B said that their BOW with TR's is 16,000....most 800A's are significantly heavier than that with TR's.

I looked it up and our a/c bow's were in the neighborhood of 16,300.... I was 300# off. So I guess if you plan on getting an 800A, filling it up with 7 pax + bags, and then trying to make it coast to coast you could have a problem.

 

[FracCapt]

I looked it up and our a/c bow's were in the neighborhood of 16,300.... I was 300# off. So I guess if you plan on getting an 800A, filling it up with 7 pax + bags, and then trying to make it coast to coast you could have a problem.

Or if you're planning on getting an 800A with a 16,300 BOW(without the ZFW mod) and putting 7 or 8 people and bags on it. Many of our 800A's with TR's are 16,300 to 16,500 BOW, giving us only about 1000-1200lbs of payload before reaching ZFW. We have pax limits(as little as 5) on many of our 800A's due to the low available payload.

From my experience, 800A's with TR's climb slower and must level at a lower altitude than ones without TR's. I'm not sure what the charts say about this, as I've never compared them side by side....but look in your performance book, just behind the takeoff tab data, and find the MGTOW for a cruise altitude chart and/or the max altitude for weight/temp chart and compare them between TR and non TR airplanes. This could greatly reduce the range of the aircraft.

 

[h25b]

I think if I were in the market for a Hawker I'd get an 800XP... We were based in the Midwest with our 800A's so we never tried any coast to coast trips. My personal record was a 5 hr. 50 min. leg ... Overall, great airplanes and my only complaint was baggage space.

 

[Clutch_Cargo]

Just out of curiosity, I looked up the BOW's on the 800A's I flew (no TR's)... they were in the range of 15.6 to 15.8. As much as I like having reversers for those occasions when braking action turns out to be less than reported, I'd look for an 800A without them. They may slow you down a little but you can't plan on it. What you can plan on is reduced payload, increased fuel burn and increased maintenance costs. I'm just not sure the cost/benefit ratio is there. JMHO though... I suppose the first time they save your bacon you don't care what they cost!

cc