Hawaiian

[mdanno808]

The union/management relationship was so bad after Carty's bonus fiasco that he was forced to resign simply because labor would not deal with him.

See you in March. Talk to BP about the party.

BTW. Krooner called me and told me that the March training schedules were out, but on the flight standards web site, the feb. 07 schedules have dissapeared, and been replaced with OCT 06 schedules. WTF? Have you been contacted with your schedule yet?

 

[Ty Webb]

But that's a pretty serious indictment of the managers in the profession You (we) are placing our whole career/financial futures in. It is a choice to work at an airline. No one is forcing us to work under such "scumbags". So we can disagree on these points.

That's the history of the airlines . . . mis-management by scumbags with more balls than brains . . . if you haven't read "Hard Landings, the history of the airlines", you need to.

The management you sign up to work under is not the management you will retire under. They will have left long ago, after either running the place into the ground, selling it off, or taking out whatever plunder they can in the form of bonuses. SWA is a rare exception. I thought AirTran would be, too, but is starting to prove otherwise.

Unfortunately, under the seniority-based system we have chosen for ourselves, there isn't much you can do, except time your exit, or grin and bare it (misspelled intentionally).


.

 

[AQ PILOT]

I would never say things were 'good' while my company still has people on the street or (as in my case) my pay scale is 14% less than it was when I started 6 years ago.

I agree with Ty pretty much. You can aim for the airline of your choice, you'll probably get there, but 35 years after you get to that airline of your choice, who frickin' knows how much is left of what you were aiming for. Guys like Carty do exactly what they are paid to do. Get the best results they can for the company... they could care less about you, me, and the rest of the workers. Other managers do the same job AND care about their peeps. We all know who they are...google 'most successful airline'...

 

[FlickerFade]

There are scumbag airline managers and scumbag airline pilots. If I thought that either were the dominant of their class I wouldn't be in this profession.

You know what? I think that things are good. And I'm not just some uninformed newbie. Things can be better and things can be a whole heck of a lot worse. To me the glass is half full, you make your own choices.

Lastly, the job with HA is one of the best in the airline industry. I am thankful. It's not the best, but I was in ANC soon after the latest UPS contract was signed and some of those guys were whining and complaining about it too.

 

[mdanno808]

You can think or believe what you want, but I think that most will agree that Don Carty is a jerkoff.

 

[mdanno808]

Things can be better and things can be a whole heck of a lot worse. To me the glass is half full, you make your own choices.
quote]

I'm guessing your not planning on running for union rep with that attitude.

 

[mdanno808]

BTW, don't get me wrong, I love Hawaiian Airlines, and am looking forward to returning. See you at Fort Koapaka.

 

[Freight Dog]

You can think or believe what you want, but I think that most will agree that Don Carty is a jerkoff.

Heh, you should have heard the AA crew I jumpseated with last night. They had a thing or two to say about Carty... and let's just say it wasn't that nice.

 

[FlickerFade]

Heh, you should have heard the AA crew I jumpseated with last night. They had a thing or two to say about Carty... and let's just say it wasn't that nice.

When you use the same adjective "scumbag" or "jerk off": to describe everyone, it loses any meaning. AA's biggest demon was more Crandall than Carty. JO at Mesa is worse than Carty was. Lorenzo is worse than any of them....... There are bad guys, some are worse than others.

In the cockpit pilots can complain about ANYTHING. It's a lot easier to criticize than to lead (insert any democrat in this phrase).

 

[mdanno808]

So now we're going to break down scumbags in degrees? Lorenzo, Ornstein, Carty, etc. are all scumbags, some more than others.

Earlier you said that the whole Carty thing at AA was blown out of proportion when looking at all the facts. I couldn't find any of them, so could you post them, rather than attempting to slam one political group who has nothing whatsoever to do with this string?

 

[FlickerFade]

So now we're going to break down scumbags in degrees? Lorenzo, Ornstein, Carty, etc. are all scumbags, some more than others.

Earlier you said that the whole Carty thing at AA was blown out of proportion when looking at all the facts. I couldn't find any of them, so could you post them, rather than attempting to slam one political group who has nothing whatsoever to do with this string?

I believe that in that instance it was more of a political failure. It came out at the wrong time in the wrong way. Whatever, I don't think that makes Carty the devil. He may have even helped the pilots by delaying or lessening their concessions? Beyond that I just don't care to get into it, the AA pilots came out of the process about the best of any passenger carrier though. That is the net result.

Pilots are champion complainers about things they don't control. It's just part of what WE do. It's easy to criticize when you aren't the leader. I put congressional democrats in that category, feel free to think differently. I won't try to convince you otherwise.

 

[mdanno808]

No you won't, and I guess it doesn't matter anymore anyway. Carty is gone, for better or for worse. Any way, what do you hear about future recalls? Is May still the word?

 

[HAL]

Any way, what do you hear about future recalls? Is May still the word?

Not according to some of the incoming union people - they say there's nothing on the horizon at the moment.

HAL

 

[Dan Roman]

Not according to some of the incoming union people - they say there's nothing on the horizon at the moment.

HAL

Key words here being "at the moment"

 

[FlickerFade]

Ah! "Dan Roman"! Another glass half full kind of guy!

 

[AQ PILOT]

Couldn't....hold....tongue....

Flicker...

Finally!!! For once you have said something that I agree with! And I'm serious about it. Your characterization of Senate democrats was dead on.

No matter how I say this, it isn't going to come out very well, but when it comes to aviation related stuff...well...you just really miss the mark. Please don't get all bent out of shape. I don't really care either way.

When you make statements like, "I think things are good. And I'm not just some uniformed newbie" or "When you use the same adjective "scumbag" or "jerk off": to describe everyone, it loses any meaning" or finally "In the cockpit pilots can complain about ANYTHING. It's a lot easier to criticize than to lead..." it makes me shiver....

Things are not good in this industry right now....even at HAL. If you think things are GOOD then you might just be that 'uninformed newbie' you so claim not to be (really though, what are you trying to say here?). I will give you this...things are getting better...as we all knew they would...but I can tell you with no level of uncertainty that things are not better for you and I because of guys like Don Carty...period. Jerk off fits him perfectly.

As for criticizing and leading...let me ask you this...how many good, no scratch that, decent ideas has your pilot group come up with for your airline? I'm betting on quite a few over the years. How many have been implemented earnestly? My limited experience (go ahead, call me a newbie ;0)) tells me that airline management almost OFFHANDEDLY REJECTS contributions from pilots.....regardelss of whether or not we are just bitching in the cockpit or standing outside management's door with an idea that will fill every airplane in the fleet at twice the goin' rate!

Sorry partner, this seems to be some sort of a culture I don't understand...There is more to this than what you say. Not sure how long you been around, what your position is, where ya came from, or anything...you really just (in my opinion) seem to miss so much of the aviation world it makes me nervous....

Now please, no hard feelings here ;0) I am not tryin to pick at ya! In fact, at this stage in the game, I wish I had been at HAL for the past 6 years instead of AQ (minus the furlough part). Your product is awesome right now and you guys are kickin' ass. Keep up the good work!!!!

Duckin' and coverin'!

AQ P

 

[FlickerFade]

Flicker...
Your product is awesome right now and you guys are kickin' ass. Keep up the good work!!!!

Duckin' and coverin'!

AQ P

Everyone judges "how things are going" from their own unique position. From the road I've walked you won't hear me being anything but pretty thankful for where I am. And yep, things seem pretty darn good.

But I am also an ALPA member and even if I don't agree with everything my MEC does, I support them 100% once they come up with the position of our group.

I don't claim that "I'm no newbie" to say that I am some know-it-all. I'm just saying that I've read the books and been in the industry long enough to have witnessed Military, Part 135, Regionals, furlough, Supplementals, and Majors. That means that at least my opinion has some weight of experience. I don't claim to represent whatever the mainstream point of view is, but I doubt that there is one (once you get to individual airlines).

I wish you and AQ nothing but the best,

Aloha.

 

[Hansoma]

What was the original topic of this thread? I seem to have gotten lost along the way.......

 

[FlickerFade]

What was the original topic of this thread? I seem to have gotten lost along the way.......

If I may summarize, I believe you will find that the root of the debate is the relative effect of tax cuts as stimulative instruments on the economy. The basic supply-sider argument. Fee free to weigh in on this or the Barry Bonds home run record, whichever you wish

 

[mdanno808]

What was the original topic of this thread? I seem to have gotten lost along the way.......

Shouldn't you be working. So what's next for Hansoma? Have you decided what you're gonna do yet?

 

[HAL]

So what's next for Hansoma? Have you decided what you're gonna do yet?

He's been recruited to become Doug Parkers personal driver. After Doogie's third DUI they figured an under-employed under-paid pilot would fit the bill perfectly.

HAL

 

[AQ PILOT]

Here ya go again Flicker...another point I agree with fully...even if we don't agree with our MEC, President, or whomever, if you're part of their troop, ya gotta support them fully. Well said....

I still think that the industry is still on the low side of 'good' but it is definitely coming back. Let's hope the swing up is as good as the swing down was bad. And thanks, I know you never wished any ill will on us over here at AQ. Just kills me that I like ridin' your airplanes across the pond more than mine ;0)

Hansoma- Dude...what ARE you doing?