Have you ever ground-looped a tailwheel?

[Tailwind]

Well, if you ever have or do in the future, just get out of the plane right on the runway and yell, "Oh yeah?!? SO WHAT!!! Chuck Yeager did it!"

Fri., at PDK, ole' Chuck ground looped a tail dragger and ended up in a ditch.

Yes.....I know......he's in his 80's. So this is no shot at Chuck, just a little fuel to fire for the old saying that "You're not a REAL pilot until you get your tailwheel endorcement".


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"Do you take drugs Danny?"
"Everyday."
"Good."

 

[105viking]

i'm not a REAL tailwheel pilot, i just play one on tv.

for my ignorance, just what EXACTLY is a GROUNDLOOP?

p.s. was gen. yeager in a t-6 or a p-51?

 

[GLSoar]

Not Yet

A ground loop is when you lose directional control of the tail wheel aircraft and it spins around in a circle. If you do this with enough energy you usally bend the gear, strike a wing and get the prop. Energy managment and rudder control is everything in a Tail wheel. Tail wheel aircraft naturally try to weather vane into the wind, use of the rudder is extremely important.

 

[FSB99]

if you haven't, you will. don't worry. it's like taxes and dying. bound to happen.

 

[105viking]

but some ground loop episodes cause no damage?

 

[A Squared]

>>>>but some ground loop episodes cause no damage?

Yes, sometimes a ground loop can actually be the best of several bad choices. I've intentionally used it once ... long story short, I was instructing from the back of a PA-12 where no brakes were avalable. Directional control had been pretty well compromised, and owner in the front seat was no longer a participating factor in the proceedings. Large hard things were looming large in the windshield. The plane was already trying to loop to the right so I booted in a bunch of right rudder and gave it the encouragement it needed. As we pirouetted around, the plane teetered up on the left gear then settled back down. No damage ... lots to think about. Cheap lesson.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I groundlooped a sky-blue '72 Toyota pickup truck once. Does that count?

 

[rfeathe1]

I learned to fly in 1954 in a 50 HP J3 cub. (1939 vintage). This cub came without brakes but it did have a steerable tailwheel. One of the first things I was taught was how to intentionly groundloop the airplane. We were flying out of a 1800' sod strip with trees on one end & a wide drainage ditch on the other end. Never had to GL it though. I did groundloop a BE 18 once. No damage to the airplane but my ego hurt for a little while. I foolishly unlocked the tailwheel to exit on a high speed exit to accomadate the tower's request to clear the RW ASAP for following traffic--told the tower I was swinging the compass.

 

[flywithastick]

There's those who have and those who will...
unless you're just too big of a wus to fly conventional gear airplanes.

I was giving dual in a -170. You gotta let them get out there on a limb. Just not *too* far. No damage, except to my pride - can you say stop, shutdown, hop out an look around for witnesses!

very helpless feeling when you know you've just become a passenger. God, *please* keep the prop out of the dirt and all three wheels on the ground.

 

[skylane58]

I know someone that groundlooped a Kingair.

 

[newmei]

Hey flywithastick

What do you think of the C-170? I have about 250 hours in one. I think its much harder than a cub or most all other taildraggers. What do you think. I flown a few tailwheel a/c with over 500 horus of tailwheel time and the C-170 wins the prize for being a sick puppy. What are your words for wisdom?

 

[RightPedal]

The C170 is a good airplane. Under powered with the C145 IMHO. I love that round vertical stab. I got my transition in an A-model, it was a dog.

A B-model with a 180hp would be the way to go. Or better, the Franklin 220 http://franklinengines.com/ would make it a true poor man's 180.

One thing to remember on all tailwheel airplanes, check those return chains from the rudder to the tailwheel. Lose one of these and it can cause one to have a real bad day.

Old crop dusters, who know as much about crashing as most know about flying, tell me, if you got to hit the ground and break it, Yaw it hard at impact to shear the gear off and ground loop it. This is a better choise than hitting something.

 

[NJA Capt]

What do you think of the C-170? I have about 250 hours in one. I think its much harder than a cub or most all other taildraggers. What do you think. I flown a few tailwheel a/c with over 500 horus of tailwheel time and the C-170 wins the prize for being a sick puppy.

We've owned a C170 for 17 years. They are the most forgiving taildragger you can fly. Also has about the best forward visibility. Try a Luscombe or a C152 taildragger with C180 gear legs if you want a real challenge.

What exactly did you consider sick?

 

[ShinerBocknabtl]

Haven't ground looped one but I did kill a 7AC Champ when I handpropped it and it decided to leave without anyone in it. Luckily I got it turned 90 deg. to the right (it was on the runway pointed in the direction of takeoff) and the spinner went directly into the corner post of the hangar.

I advise propping from behind if at all possible and chain the tail to a truck or something. Anyhow, I ended up getting thrown underneath between the gear at impact cause I was trying to hold it back by the rear strut on the right wing.

I should be dead now but let this be words of wisdom for you folks that handprop.

 

[newmei]

Maybe its the plane. For me the L-3, cub, pa-12 bellanca decathleon, and RV-4 were all easier that the c-170 for me.

 

[captainv]

Yeager was flying a T-6 at the time. He had been flying a P-51 earlier in the day and landed without incident.

The incident took place at a new fly-in community in NE Georgia, not at PDK in Atlanta. THe accident happened in early Oct. ....

http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/politics/6919158.htm

 

[flywithastick]

In my experience, about 30 hrs in a -170A, the plane 3 pt'd very nicely. Was the most challenging taildragger to wheel land I've flown so far though. With the gear arrangement and the unbalanced elevator, you had to grease it on near perfectly to get a wheel landing.

I like the -170. Very smooth with the 6 cyl continental. Underpowered for a 4 seater, but nice with two or three people. Agreed - would be nice with a little more power.

It does sit up nicely. Much better vis than a Cub, Stearman, etc. My incident was training related. I just gave my student too much rope at touchdown...

 

[avbug]

The idea that there are those that have and those who will, is absolute garbage. I hear that about groundloops, gear up landings, you name it. Foolishness.

Mistakes do happen, and stupidity happens too...but neither is inevitable.

As far as letting an airplane get away when handpropping...that's why we tie down the tail. Again, mistakes and stupidity happens, but neither are inevitable.

Incidentally, one cannot groundloop a tailwheel. One can groundloop a conventional gear airplane, but the tailwheel knows nothing about direction, forward or back. It cannot be groundlooped on it's own. Only the airplane may be groundlooped, as a whole.

 

[Gas Turbine]

A groundloop is when the tail wants to chase the nose of the airplane.

 

[LJDRVR]

Groundlooped a Swift once. 360 degrees right around and kept on going. Owner was letting me fly from right seat with no brakes. we cleared the runway and were headed down the parallel with the speed building up to an unacceptable level. I kept asking this guy to slow it down for me, (He kept saying "You're doing fine!") and was about to tell him "your airplane" when on around it went. came out on centerline, not a scratch.

Although it wasn't the case above, a word of caution to y'all instructing in tailwheels. (I did for 600 hours) Avoid the student who wants you to teach him/her to fly in their tailwheel A/C with only one set of brakes. Tempting, but BAD juju. I don't beleive the "those that have those that will" adage, but if you are going to teach in taildraggers, you need to be VERY careful with aviators trained in tricycle gear. Providing tailwheel dual is some of the most dangerous flying in GA. Prepare yourself accordingly.