Has this happened to you?

[B190Captain]

I was taxiing to the end of the runway and about 3/4 of the way down the tower controller says, "Taxi into position and hold." My FO reads it back but I noticed a 737 on about a 2 mile final. I keyed in and said "You sure about that?" The controller realized what was going on and said, "Hold short, Good call."

I felt good that day, I saved lives including my own.

Has anyone else have had a similar scenario out there in our nation's airports?

 

[Blueline]

Hold short

I've had it happen twice. First time in MHT. Cleared for takeoff and SW 737 taxied across the runway before advancing the thrust levers. I told the controller that we would hold our position for a minute. He never acknowledged anything.

Second time was in OKC. Traffic on <1 mile final. We were cleared for takeoff. Told controller we would hold short. Again the controller never said anything.

It pays to pay attention....

BL

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Save lives? ..well...OK...

But this is the reason we have eyes. We check final before taxiing onto the runway, right?....also another reason to turn on ALL lights once cleared onto active. So even if we missed him at night, he wouldn't land on US! (we hope)

controllers are human, only trust them as far as you can throw them.

 

[FN FAL]

My FO reads it back but I noticed a 737 on about a 2 mile final.

Maybe the tower guy knew it was really a 3 mile final and considering the approaching aircraft's ground speed, figured you had time to get that bucket of rivets off the runway in about 90 to 120 seconds or so.

I never turn down those "traffic is on a two mile final" take off clearances. You usually get an immediate turn out heading instruction, which means you get a legal chance to buzz the tower and if you have to abort takeoff on the runway, you get to make a jet airliner take a 3,000 dollar turn around the patch.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Have you guys ever flown into MDW? This is an everyday occurrence. They clear someone into position when you are on final at 800' AGL

 

[B190Captain]

Maybe the tower guy knew it was really a 3 mile final and considering the approaching aircraft's ground speed, figured you had time to get that bucket of rivets off the runway in about 90 to 120 seconds or so.

I never turn down those "traffic is on a two mile final" take off clearances. You usually get an immediate turn out heading instruction, which means you get a legal chance to buzz the tower and if you have to abort takeoff on the runway, you get to make a jet airliner take a 3,000 dollar turn around the patch.

The 737 was too close and I was too far from the end of the runway. The 737 was awful big and I may have misjudged the distance in my initial post. He was more like a 1 to 1 1/2 mile final.

The controller told me to "TAXI INTO POSITION AND HOLD." I did not get a Takeoff clearance.

 

[mar]

Hey man, it was a good call.

B190Captain--Good call man. Don't sweat it. Part of being in charge is standing up and taking some feather ruffling whether or not the decision was a good one.

In this case it was a good one. But someone will always try to ruffle your feathers if just to stop your head from swelling too much.

One day I entered the pattern VFR in a 207 at an airport with intersecting runways. There was a new controller on, just getting checked out....

...and everything went to hell. There was just too much traffic going too many different directions and the instructor let it go too far.

I told the tower I was departing the area to the southeast and I'd re-enter in a few minutes.

Sometimes you just gotta say, I'll come back when you can play nice.

 

[8HourPilot]

Right on good call, and again nice avatar

 

[rfeathe1]

Back in the 1970s at Detroit City Airport I was position & hold on rw 33 awaiting IFR release. After about 1 minute I was released & cleared for takeoff & at the same time noticed an aircraft decending through the clouds & alined with rw 15. I asked the tower if they wanted me to fly over or under the aircraft landing on 15. They quickly had me exit the runway.

 

[blueridge71]

If there is traffic that close on final, the controller is supposed to call it out in the clearance. Normally they do. This guy apparently missed it.

 

[Vector4fun]

I'm not saying nuttin' till I'm retired.....

However, I did happen to mention to an A-36 over the approach lights last month that his landing gear wasn't down.


Please don't be offended if ATC doesn't respond very graciously. They're just trying to NOT convict themselves on tape after dodging a bullet. I'm sure it was appreciated.

Let's be careful out there folks...

 

[Vavso]

Yes

I was cleared to taxi to the active and upon approaching the threshold of a runway enroute to the active had a plane thas was over the reils . The tower controller was speechless. Vavso

 

[DCitrus9]

On the flip side, why do some people insist on telling tower they are ready for departure when there is an aircraft on final that obviously will be landing first?
I do like the controllers who keep things rolling: " taxi position and hold, traffic on final- have them spooled up!" giddeyup!

 

[FN FAL]

On the same token, I got cleared to land behind a NWA Airbus last night. As this was my prefered runway due to the fact that a right turn at a certain taxiway puts me right into the cargo ramp, I was willing to make this work out, without getting into the wake turbulence of the bigger plane.

So now, NWA is attempting to slow down on the runway, to make a certain exit and is asked by the tower controller to expedite. They miss that turn off, so they go onto the next and announce it. The tower controller requests once again for them to expedite. They come back with kind of a snooty "may-yam, we are doing the best we can!". Which I don't blame them.

Meanwhile, I had come in high and slow to avoid the wake turbulance, so I just dropped another notch of flaps and leveled off as slow as I could, maybe 200 feet HAT. After what seemed like an eternity, NWA exited, I chopped and dropped, landing and coming to a slow roll just in time to make my exit.

As soon as I expedited my exit, they lobbed a BAC 146 off the runway (he was a position and hold on my roll out) and right behind him was a Midwest Boeing on short final.

I gotta give the tower controller credit for working me into the flow and realizing that I had the ability to milk out my final till NWA got of the runway, without freaking out. At any time, I could have been able to put the coals to it, and gone around for a try at the parallel.

I'm sure as NWA was taxiing back from their landing and as I was going past them for the flare...they were muttering something.

By all means, if you think it's unsafe to pull out on a runway, refuse.

 

[SquirrelDog]

B190Captain,

I have only one thing to say, Where can I get an enlarged pictue of your avatar?

Thanks SD

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

If there is traffic that close on final, the controller is supposed to call it out in the clearance. Normally they do. This guy apparently missed it.


actually, if there is a plane cleared to land and you put a plane into position and hold then you have to call the traffic to both parties.

if a plane is put into position and hold and there is a plane one mile out without the clearence, there is no rule that says traffic must be called but more then likely it will be whether it be "union flight 8603 runways 32 position and hold traffic is a gulfstream on a 3 mile final." but its not required.

As for this whole thread, this **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** happens, the other day ground went to coordinate crossing a runway with me, i looked out on final to look for my touch and go traffic and didn't see them, so i gave the crossing. then about 2 seconds later i see the little 152 about 1/4 blended in with the trees. when towers get slow they can get careless....luckily i caught it in time.

If you ever get a position and hold scan the runway before you pull onto it. When i was flying it was just one of this things i did everytime i entered the runway. So good job on calling that back. If the controller gives you a clrnce to do anything and you don't think its right your the captain, or PIC and you have the end say in what that aircraft is gonna do.

Im gonna say, the controllers in the US are great. We are well trained and do our jobs well....same with the pilots. Professional pilots are a pleasure to work with because 95% of the time you all do what we ask. And then you get some student pilots and low time pilots and even 4000hr pilots in the bonanzas that just done get it. We deal with it every day and as professional pilots sometimes your gonna get a raw clrnce and just be advised, no one is perfect, those planes can get a way from you really quick. That is why even if my airspace is clear and a plane calls in 20 miles out, i always ask for a 3 or 5 mile final report and then i clear them, that way i don't forget about them. Im glad everything worked out here. A month ago my fellow controllers down in SJC put a plane into position and hold. Then landed a citation right over the top of the other aircraft. The controller **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed up, it was day time, what the hell was the pilot in the landing citation thinking?????

Just remember LAX. Skywest SA227 and Usair 737. It happens, I did it in the simulator in Okcity at the academy. And i couldn't believe it. I didn't realize it for about 1 minute when i was scanning the sky wondering where the cheyenne was that i cleared to take off as an american 727 sqwashed him, and i didn't even see the crash.... " what happend to my cheyenne?" --instructor-"he crashed a minute ago"

Keep on scanning....