Has anyone flown at FL 450 - 510?

[Archer]

Quite a few busines jets, like the Citation X, Gulfstream G500, Global Express, Lear 31A, 40, 45, 45 XR, 60 etc...

can make it to FL 510...

so any of you Capts and FOs of these...how does it feel to fly at FL 510...and....HOWS THE VIEW? I know the Concorde is flies usually between FL 530 and 560 I believe, and is certified to FL 600, and they say they can see the curvature of the earth and a violoet sky...

well, it must be awesome...tell us about it

btw, is the G500 out yet? Is that the Gulfstream V?

and I find it pretty amazing that a little plane like the Lear 31A can go up to FL 510 without afterburners....

Archer

 

[avbug]

The view looks a lot like 410, which is surprisingly like 310, etc.

Climb performance drops off considerably, the airplane is a lot touchier to handle. However, other than the indication on the altimeter, there's nothing really remarkable about it.

Better question...how many (without naming names) actually wear their mask? How many set it on their lap? How many don't touch the mask at all?

 

[bigD]

and I find it pretty amazing that a little plane like the Lear 31A can go up to FL 510 without afterburners

Actually, knowing that you're an engineer, I find is surprising that you're at all surprised. Some rough math can be done in your head. Although I guess you need to know some specifics about the planes themselves too!

 

[empenage]

Stand on the head of a pin and juggle....WITH the mask on..

Yep, that's about right.

 

[enigma]

I nursed a Lear 55 up to 47200 once out on J86 over the gulf. It handled ok, just wouldn't climb anymore. Yes you can start to see some curve at FL450, especially at northern latitudes at dusk.

Yes, I wore the mask. I even checked the mask before I took off.

When I was a junior Lear35 FO, I accepted the Captains word that he had completed the preflight and discovered inflight that we had no O2. I couldn't talk him into landing, but I did manage to get him to stay at FL240 instead of going to 450.

After that, I always check the mask. Being scared spitless once was enough.

regards,
8N

 

[Archer]

Yeah, sometimes the math gets in the way and you forget that you are trying to learn about airplanes and spacecraft...I could probably calculate the max altitude given thrust, weight, fuel consumption, atmospheric conditions etc...


Really, no difference at FL 310 and 510?

The trans-atlantic flights I've been on (in 777s) never went higher than FL 390...and that was as high as I've ever been...starts to look pretty d@mn high at that point...and there isn't a cloud anywhere near...clouds are non-existent...


and what's this mask thing...required to wear a mask above a certain alt?

Archer

 

[Brett Hull]

Took a 31 up to 510 a couple weeks ago. Nursed it up there about 2-300 fpm. Just me and the capt. over the gulf on the way to Cancun. Didn't do too well though. We were doing .73 when we got up there, and it kept decelerating. At .68 we started down. Couldn't see any curvature, but you could see a long way, though. And it was a little darker.

 

[JimNtexas]

I've been to 50 briefly a couple of times as a WSO in the Air Force. I recall seeing a blacker sky and some curvature of the earth.

 

[Rick1128]

Took a 24F to 510 a few years ago. But had to be very light. Basicly almost out of fuel. The fuel burn is not much better than 410, though. The aircraft is speed critical.

Yes it is dark above and you can see a slight curvature of the earth.

However, just went through a course of Aerospace Physiology at NASA earlier this week. It included a ride in the altitude chamber. It was an eye opener. At 510 you have less than 1/8 th of the atmosphere available to you. Further more your time of useful consciousness is measured in just a few seconds. Plus other factors like the bends, etc.

It makes you think. Maybe being much above 410 is not a real good idea. And this is from people who regularly operate a long way above 410.

 

[Archer]

I guess the curvature can be seen from 60 to 85,000 ft for the first time...

I just can't wait till they start the space tourism business with spaceplanes, those competeing for the Xprize....meant to go to 62 miles...320,000+ ft, considered by AF and NASA as space...

 

[LR25]

Been to 450 in a Lear25 on several occasions, the fuel burn is worth the climb, even if your only going to be there for 20-30 minutes.

It just really depends on all the factors for the trip, winds mostly I would guess.

If your heavy, you get about 500-300 fpm climb, we have had ATC "queary" a few times that we were cleared to 450 becuase we would just be sitting there 300fpm.

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

Archer said, "The trans-atlantic flights I've been on (in 777s) never went higher than FL 390...and that was as high as I've ever been...starts to look pretty d@mn high at that point...and there isn't a cloud anywhere near...clouds are non-existent..."

Unfortunately, clouds do exist that high. I once mistakenly took a flight to 410 to try and get over the weather. I put my wingman in radar trail and noticed I was painting a small cell on the nose just below my altitude but nothing above, so I went up to 430 thinking I would get out of it (I know, should have been 450 but I wouldn't have made it with all the crap hanging on the airplane). Shortly after leveling, I saw lightning off my right side followed by my wingman telling me he thought he had been struck by lightning and his radar was broke.

Upon landing at Kelly, there were no marks on his jet but his radar was hard broke. The antenna would bang on one side of the stop so hard it would shake the airplane. I don't know if he was actually struck by lightning but it sure did fry his radar.

That was the same storm that an Army Sherpa was trying to fly through in Georgia and crashed. Our occurence happenned well south into Gulf.

 

[banned username 2]

I've been to FL470 with the Falcon 50EX several times... typically it will do Mach 0.80 up there if the temps and weight are right...

One of these days on a cold day I will take it to FL490 (certified ceiling)

The sky is a bit darker, I have some photos if you are interested...

Let me know...

Falcon Capt.

 

[V1 cuts R fun]

I've had the 757 up to FL410 on a trip between ORD and MCO. Only went that high because ATC asked if I could accept it. Then they asked if I could take FL430 instead and I said no way. Climb performance was nilch. Would like to take a Lrjet23 up to FL510 someday just to say I've been there. Heard a story of some early Lrjet test pilots taking a LRJET above FL510. Dual engine flameout, they then had to get down to FL250 for a restart. Hoped they checked the O2 prior to the flight!!!!

 

[Old Crow]

Been to 510 twice. The first time the temp was too hot and we could barely maintain a climb of 200 fpm.

The second time, really cold and we climbed right up with no problem. Really the same view looking down, if you look up, you see a much closer view of the dark purple.

The most significant difference is that when you are up there and cruising very close to the barber pole, when you pull the power back to descend, nothing happens... Hard to come down.

Really just a "I went there" thing. The airspace above 430 is really useless unless you have a very powerful jet. Performance doesn't increase above 430 cause the aircraft has to work to stay up there.

Lear 31A

 

[Diesel]

I take the Ultramatic to 450 a couple of times a week. Especially with these winter winds. Fuel burn is 600lbs an hour per engine at 410.

At 450 it's 400lbs an hour. It helped us a ton as we crossed the country. It made it only one stop instead of two. The speeds were the same. .70

The groundspeed was much faster due to being above the winds.

The only thing you have to watch out for is the sheer from the jetstream. It can put a ride so rough on you that you have to descend.

 

[LrBob]

oh look how high we are

i once flamed a 24d at 420-god i hate that-view was the same on the way down to restart-But other than that- i always fly 41-43 in the 24 for the range-what ever that is


p.s always remember paine stewart

 

[temcgrew]

Few years back my buddy nursed a common non-pressurised single to about 20K. Without a mask on or any oxygen on board, either. As soon as he confirmed that the sky darkens, we told him to get his ass down in a hurry. He also reported seeing something he called "sprites". However, he didn't see any curvature, so that must be a myth

no oxygen on board? that explains the sprites, do they still follow him around?