Hard landing: How hard is hard?

[FL030]

Just came across this in this months NTSB reports

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050321X00344&key=1

Hard landing in a c-182 that resulted in firewall damage. Back when i was just soloing in a c-150 i remember drilling the nose gear pretty hard once and was concerned enough to pull off the runway and get out of the plane to have a look at any possible damage. There was no damage to be found, even under the closer scrutiny of the subsequent annual inspection. The landing was quite hard and resulted in a rather lound bang resounding through the cabin, yet no damage.

Now that i own and fly a Skylane i'm a little curious as to how hard one would have to crash land this plane to result in significant structural damage. By the way, of course all my landings have been picture perfect in this plane. And, yes i'm well aware of the nose heavy tendencies inherent to the Skylane. My most egregious offense to date has been a couple of very flat landings. I have since learned to grab the yoke with BOTH hands and keep pulling till the horn goes off and a little goose on the power doesn't hurt either.

Any hard landing storys to confess to?

 

[jergar999]

I don't have all the facts present to back this up, but I've heard that 182s are notoriously nose heavy and that wreaks havoc on both the front gear and firewall that it's attached to. What should have been the nastiest landing I ever did was in a Cessna 140 with spring gear working on my tailwheel endorsement. We bounced a good 6 or 7 feet it seemed like, and I went around.

 

[qmaster3]

My CFI told me to land on the rnwy, not fly into it as we were bouncing down the rnwy. He never told me to flare. How was I supposed to know?

 

[TrafficInSight]

Just came across this in this months NTSB reports

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050321X00344&key=1

Hard landing in a c-182 that resulted in firewall damage. Back when i was just soloing in a c-150 i remember drilling the nose gear pretty hard once and was concerned enough to pull off the runway and get out of the plane to have a look at any possible damage. There was no damage to be found, even under the closer scrutiny of the subsequent annual inspection. The landing was quite hard and resulted in a rather lound bang resounding through the cabin, yet no damage.

Now that i own and fly a Skylane i'm a little curious as to how hard one would have to crash land this plane to result in significant structural damage. By the way, of course all my landings have been picture perfect in this plane. And, yes i'm well aware of the nose heavy tendencies inherent to the Skylane. My most egregious offense to date has been a couple of very flat landings. I have since learned to grab the yoke with BOTH hands and keep pulling till the horn goes off and a little goose on the power doesn't hurt either.

Any hard landing storys to confess to?

You can do it with one hand if you give it a few swipes of nose up trim while you're pulling I've noticed... otherwise you just have to be superman

 

[Kream926]

You can do it with one hand if you give it a few swipes of nose up trim while you're pulling I've noticed... otherwise you just have to be superman

i found that also to be usefull landing a cutlass

 

[doh]

I know exactly how hard one has to land in Key West to keep the FO below the window level so the pax can't see me... er... I mean him... P.S. The captain said he had experienced one landing that was harder. He didn't say whether it was his or some one else's though.

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

OK, this story is from a friend. Happened on his first IOE trip after making captain on the 727. He had been a DC-10 F/O and did all of his training landings at night up at PMD (before the days of doing it all in the sim). Lots of room, nice long runway. First trip was to ferry a 727 from ONT to BUR then operate revenue from there. During the approach briefing the training captain cautioned him, "You don't have a lot of room to finesse this. Just get it on and get it stopped."

My friend flew the Rwy 8 visual approach down to 50'--at which point he pulled the power to idle, sorta reverting to old habits. I guess that's about 40' too high in a 727. He said the resulting touchdown was quite memorable. He could feel the standing waves of vibration oscillating back and forth across the wings during the rollout, combined with the training captain's laughing commentary, "Well, at least it was on the numbers."

The lead F/A came up after shutdown and said, "I've been with this company 11 years. That was the worst landing I've ever been through."

My friend's response, "That's OK. I've got seven more to do today."

He walked back and found that about half of the oxygen masks had deployed. He half-expected to see the mains popped up through the wings. They called for an inspection. The airplane came through just fine.

As for me, there's probably still a few Scenic Twin Otters out there with wider-than-normal main gear thanks to my "technique."

 

[Flechas]

About 3 years ago I was an intern with an airline that flies 747-200.
Me an a couple more interns went on a training flight for a female CA who had upgraded frm narrow body FO, which requires training in the actual airplane. We went to n airport to do take off and landings. All the landings were off centerline and a little hard. The last one though was the hardest. When we got back to the maintenance hangar, all the O2 masks in the rear were deployed, and when we steped out of the plane one of the mechanics hit one of the mains witha tool and a bunch of rubber fell of, and he said really loud "Danm!! that was a hard landing"

 

[TrafficInSight]

I hear that 727's are hard to consistently make good landings in. Can anyone with som experience in them share some stories or theories?

 

[Fuzzy_is_Hungry]

I heard one time that there is a video produced by Cessna that shows a 172 being dropped from approximately 15 feet resulting in no damage. So I'd say one would really have to plant a Cessna to cause some damage.

And with that in mind, one time I witnessed a 182 land so hard at APA that the main gear wheels broke off and were rolling down the runway. The nose gear had completely seperated from the airplane and the 182 was skidding down the runway on its nose, finally coming to a stop just off the runway. Apperantly it was a couple of CAP pilots flying the thing as well. Now that's a hard landing.

 

[English]

My old airplane was totalled due to a hard landing. Rookie in a Hawk XP flaring 10 feet high. The Hawk XP has a heavy nose, similar to the 182.


http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX04CA219&rpt=fa

 

[Lear2460]

It was a hard landing, when one of the passengers comes up to you before exiting the aircraft and says "Hey man, I heard that dog you killed back there". I cracked up when I heard that.

 

[Mr. Cole]

Although I'm ashamed to admit it, I had to go around not once, but three times yesterday when my attempts at wheel landings in the SD were a little more "solid" than necessary. Finally managed to get it down on the fourth attempt.

Dave

 

[ackattacker]

Firewall damage during landing is common on 182's and 172's to a somewhat lesser extent... usually a result of porpoising. Sometimes the damage is not obvious, I've seen it go till 100 hour to get caught. You're usually given two bounces, the third one will do the nosewheel in and probably get the prop also. You probably could drop a 172 from fifteen feet... on the mains. But that nosewheel is weak weak weak.

I knew a guy who punched the main strut of an Arrow through the top of the wing in a gusty crosswind and didn't realize it - went around and retracted the gear. Then of course the gear wouldn't come down - DOH!

 

[TDTURBO]

I was coming into an airport in Kentucky, had a perfectly stabilized approach and about 30 ft above the runway I am hit with a downdraft from hell. I slammed it on the mains so hard that paint was missing where the gear comes out of the aiframe. It was in a 182rg. The only reason I didn't hurt anything is because I hit only on the mains and on the inevitable bounce up, I jammed in the throttle and flew it on the runway. Weird how winds can f*ck with you out of nowhere. The airplane was check thoroughly and no damage, I am convinced that if you keep them on the mains and avoid a nose wheel hit, they will sustain a hell of a beating.

 

[GravityHater]

I've seen it go till 100 hour to get caught.

I've seen it be undiscovered until the next (or later) prebuy inspection too!

My worst landing was my private checkride BOING!! saved a short field 'crash' by going around. Should've failed me for cracking under pressure if not the bad arrival.

 

[EOpilot]

I hear that 727's are hard to consistently make good landings in. Can anyone with som experience in them share some stories or theories?

True. The 727 is challenging to land smoothly. Many say it's because of the location of the landing gear in relation to the CG, especially in the -200 series. That's a bunch of garbage, though. Many aircraft have wheels as far from the CG as the 727.

Really the challenge comes due to the fact that the tail is HIGHLY loaded in the landing configuration. This loading is felt as additional apparent weight since the tail is loaded with downforce. In a flare, the downforce is increased, increasing the apparent weight. Timed just wrong, the flare actually drives the aircraft into the runway even harder than if not flared at all. Timed just right, (and without touching the throttles until 10'), one can "roll it on" by derotating just slightly prior to wheels down, thereby decreasing the downforce of the tail, reducing the apparent weight, and temporarily slowing the rate of descent.

That's all for EOpilot's groundschool for today. Tune in next week when I'll be going over digital cable troubleshooting from my Comcast van.

Ugh.