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Hamas Spirital Leader Killed By Israel

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USMCAirWinger said:
...well all you have to do is go back 50-60 years and the Israelis were doing the same thing to the British rule (Bombings, kidnappings).
True, but with a few key differences. Jewish extremist groups (Irgun and Lehi) targeted British military targets only. Even the famous bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem is remarkable in that they phoned in a warning thirty minutes in advance. The British arrogantly chose to ignore the warning.

The issue here is that the Palestinians had their land taken away, whether right or wrong.
They lost their land due to losing a war. In 1948-49 Israel fought a defensive war and in the process acquired territory not allocated by the U.N. Partition Plan. I feel bad for individuals who lost their homes and land during the war but as the aggressors they collectively gave up their claims.

They, in their view, are doing the patriotic thing by doing what it takes to get it back (I'm not endorsing suicide bombings). I'm sure that if they had access to weapons that match the Israeli's they would not be blowing themselves up.

Patriotism? Hardly! Their leaders mislead them into believing that the Jews can be pushed into the sea and that they can "reclaim" their homes (or Jewish homes built since). Palestine has never been a country, a people, or an ethnic group. In fact up until the creation of Israel the "Palestinians" is what the British called the Jews! The Arabs of Palestine were simply called "Arabs". Under the Ottoman Empire Palestine was part of the Syrian district. Remember that there were no Arab countries other than Egypt until after WWI when the British and French defined the current borders to appease tribal leaders in order to keep the flow of precious oil. It's a resounding success of Arab propaganda that the world actually thinks there's a distinct Palestinian people that suddenly appeared after Israel was created.

I believe the "Two State" solution is really no solution at all. It may be inevitable yet the ultimate goal remains: Israel's destruction.

Dude
 
The majority of Americans are unqualified to hold an opinion on this issue.

They read an occasional article and dutifully parrot the party line concerning these issues.

They have a RIGHT to an opinion, but they are woefully ignorant of the underlying facts.

Worse, they strenuously resist any and all attempts to become informed, since it clashes with their dear, precious preconceptions. This is the danger presented by an emotionally-led populace.

Your myths and legends mean more to you than the truth. Meanwhile, innocents die, while the sophists ponder.
 
Wasn't Palestine (the country, people) created by the Romans back in the day? We need the history dudes for this one.
Also, I'm not saying in any way that the bombings are ok...I think that they are crazy mofos. The thing is that one cannot expect them to not use unconventional warfare if they are fighting for the "right" cause. If the US wasn't as powerful as it is right now and we got invaded and succesfuly taken over would you not fight and do whatever it takes?
 
The bottom line to the struggle in the Middle East is this:

Arab countries are using the Palestinians to fight by proxy a war that they lost over and over again when they used conventional means.

The Palestinian issue would be but a memory were it not for Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent, Jordan funding it, refusing to patriate Palestinians and providing arms.

Eventually, Israel will begin going after the sponsoring governments, the way we did Afghanistan, and this crap will end.

I can tell you Hamas backed off targeting US interests for the very reason that their sponsors knew we would light up Damascus and Teheran rather than Gaza if that happened. The Palestinians have been convinced they have nothing to lose, so maybe it is time Israel moved up the food chain and went after the sponsoring governments.

They kicked their asses in '48, '67 and '73, then again in '81, maybe it is time once again.
 
This whole issue amuses me because history tells us that NO country that opposed the Jews has succeeded. No matter what is done, those pesky Jews just keep surviving. Sort of like roaches, and imported fire ants, they are basically undefeatable. That's not religion, opinion, nor wishes; it's a historical fact. The Jews haven't been exterminated, others have tried to do so for centuries, yet the Jews survive. No other ancient culture that was defeated and taken into captivity ever managed to survive intact, much less return to it's homeland and become a independent country. HHHHHHHHmmmmmmmmmmm.

Does anyone ever learn from the past?

Sort of makes you wonder, don't it?


enigma
 
Well put, bart, but I'm not sure Egypt and Jordan belong on that same list. The Egyptians certainly deserve consideration for having signed the Peace Treaty, and Jordan has been making strides, too. I think I would hammer Syria first and foremost, Iran, and the Saudis next.
 
Wasn't Palestine (the country, people) created by the Romans back in the day?
Ah, no.

They coined the *name* "Palestine," based on the Philistines, which was used as an insult to the Jewish nation, naming the land they (formerly, at that point) inhabited after their worst enemies. But it is only a name, and as has been pointed out, the PEOPLE there were simply more arabs like the Jordanians, Syrians, Egyptians, etc around them. The distinctions we know today didn't exist two centuries ago.

All claims to "historic" rights of the arab Palestinians to land, homes, nation, etc are totally, entirely, 100% falsehood, spread by liars & thugs like Arafat. Just like the lie that Israel is a "terrorist" state just like the Palestinians. If Israel used the initfada's methods with their hardware, they could carpet-bomb the Palestinians right off the map. The fact that they don't is perfectly clear proof of the difference between Israel and those who make war on them, but only for those willing to see the difference.
 
enigma said:
This whole issue amuses me because history tells us that NO country that opposed the Jews has succeeded.

Not sure how you define "success". The ancient Hebrews were conquered by the Babylonians and Romans. The Jews were massacred and explelled from Spain and Portugal during the Inquisition. Nazi Germany wiped out over a third of the world Jewish population. Modern Israel has beaten back the aggressors but at an unimaginable cost in terms of lives and resources. I guess if there's one Jew left you could call that a success but I wouldn't. Israel's future is far from certain. The Jewish people will never dissappear but that's a different story.

Dude.
 
TWA Dude said:
Not sure how you define "success".

Dude.

You didn't read the second half of my post. I said, "No other ancient culture that was defeated and taken into captivity ever managed to survive intact, much less return to it's homeland and become a independent country."

If you don't like my definition, (not said argumentively, just making a point), maybe you'd rather have had the Jews go the way of other captive peoples.


Or maybe I should have said that every nation that attempted to annialiate the Jews failed and was eventually wiped out themselves; present history excluded because it is still being played out. My only real point is this: I wouldn't bet against the Jews. You're either extremely lucky, or someone is looking out for ya.
:D

regards,
enigma
 
enigma said:
...every nation that attempted to annialiate the Jews failed and was eventually wiped out themselves...
Russia survived...well, sort of. (Although it was the Cold War that ultimately put them out of business, not their persecution of Jews.)
 
Found on nicedoggie.net:
1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the Koranimals don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity - making the desert bloom - while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?

2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?


3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?


4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?


5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?


6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?


7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on busses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their sandy asses kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?


8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?


9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?


10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?


11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?
 
well...he copied and pasted it...but yeah.

31389047-8521-019A01F4-.jpg


klein
 

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