Gyrocopters?

[Gorilla]

Anyone have any experience with a Bensen or similar gyroplane? Gyrocopter? What IS the correct term?

I've always been fascinated by these, and they look like a blast, especially the open-cockpit aspect. Thanks!

 

[airbrush]

Gyros

Gorilla,

I too have been fascinated by these machines for years. The correct generic term is "gyroplane"...."gyrocopter" was a term coined by Bensen Aircraft to refer to their own product.

I got about 2 hours' dual with Bill Parsons in his Bensen-style tandem trainer back in '89. It was an absolute blast; better than a powered parachute (felt far more solid, less like a powered wiffle ball), extremely maneuverable. Also very noisy (90hp McCullough screaming behind you).

Although it was great, I never pursued it further for these reasons:
1). Expense of adding the rating to my PPL was at least several thousand $, and training wasn't located anywhere convenient.
2). Aircraft themselves can be pricey, especially 2-seaters (upwards of $30K), and they require lots of power for the performance relative to a fixed-wing machine (don't need a conventional hangar, though).
3). Despite the amount of knowledge I have and the design changes over the years to improve safety, even experienced gyro pilots still seem to get killed too often (even Bill Parsons himself), or at least it seems so. Check out www.rotaryforum.com/forum for some info.

Have fun.

 

[Huggyu2]

Mr Farrington was a real high time instructor, and he got himself killed a few years ago. That was at Sun 'n' Fun, I think. We've also had two in the past few years die in the pattern at MYV, where there is a guy who builds them. I think having a builder there makes MYV sort of a gyro mecca.

 

[Gorilla]

Ohhh K, I wasn't aware that these things were death traps. I thought that they were stable and easy to fly, like an ultralight. I learned something new today.

I'm not quite ready to check out of this world yet. When I do, I'll take up base jumping and gyrocopters!

 

[airbrush]

I'm not trying to spook you, Gorilla. I've done a fair amount of research, and I understand that they can be very safe, especially when equipped with a good horizontal tail surface. There are a couple of designs out there that seem very good....I particularly like the Little Wing designs (www.littlewingautogyro.com). But I don't have about $35K for the aircraft (which I must then build myself) and another $5K or so to get the Private Gyro add-on to my PPL. For all of that, I could buy something else and a have lot of cash left for gas, hangar, insurance, etc, and not have to wait 2-3 years to fly it. I still think they're cool machines; I guess maybe the accidents shouldn't concern me any more than the recent shocking loss of Scott Crossfield....it happens, I guess. But when I read of a high-time gyro pilot augering in, it's very disappointing.

 

[Gorilla]

I appreciate the info, airbrush. I don't know why, but these fascinate me, ever since I saw a few movies watching guys take off in what appeared to be about 20 feet in a modest wind. They seem really maneuverable and capable of some awesome "tricks". Plus, in a post-apocalyptic world, it'd definitely kick some butt. (The Road Warrior! )

$5K for a gyro rating? That's pretty harsh. I definitely need to look into this a bit more. Maybe I'll pursue the ultralight side of the equation, get enough dual to avoid instant death, at least, then tool around in the ultralight. Or perhaps set it up with a ballistic parachute set up to launch straight back!

 

[skiddriver]

My rotary wing class at USNTPS did an eval on the Air and Space U-18 at the end of our course back in 1992. I was under whelmed by the flying qualities and the performance of the machine.

The aircraft did have the ability to clutch in the rotor on the ground, and then once it got up to launch RPM, simultaneously declutch the rotor drive, drop the rotor into flight pitch, and after it had jumped a couple of feet off the ground, ramp up the pusher prop power and essentially do a zero roll takeoff. This scared the willies out of me, as my lasting impression was that we were just along for the ride until we developed a little airspeed. I prefer a little more control out of my aircraft.

I could have lived with that, but the aircraft had an incredibly critical sideslip limit combined with lousy directional stability and poor cueing. You had to spend most of the flight pegged to the ball, or it would try to swap ends, an unrecoverable event according to the instructor pilot from the company who provided the aircraft.

As an aside, I was told by one of my classmates that a couple of years after our evaluation flight, the instructor pilot (who's name escapes me) killed himself in a U-18.

My father (also a retired Marine pilot) had an acquaintance (private pilot) that home-built a gyro and killed himself in it on his second or third flight. He bled off his rotor speed in a turn and fell out of the sky like a stone.

My final evaluation is that gyrocopters are unforgiving aircraft that should only be flown by unmarried orphans with no offspring.

 

[airbrush]

The Air & Space (Umbaugh) 18A had a lot of problems; Farrington Aircraft tried to resurrect the design a few years back, but it didn't work. As previously mentioned, Don Farrington himself (retired Pan Am captain) was eventually killed in one (I think). The concept isn't dead yet, though; check this site www.gbagyros.com. Of course, the Hawk is primarily for commercial applications, while the Sparrowhawk design is for the homebuilt market.

I've thought about the idea of just enough training to get into an ultralight gyro, but in the final analysis, I guess I'd like a machine in which I can safely and confidently take my kids for a ride. I still may look at one someday, although not without thorough training and serious design analysis.

 

[Gryphon]

I'd seen something on the net, can't remember where i found it, but somebody cut up a harley and built it into a gyroplane... was streetable too, i think.. gotta see if i can find the link.

 

[Gryphon]

I was looking at the Titan Tornado... wicked looking machine.

 

[Huggyu2]

Gryphon,
If you like the Tornado, check out the Rans S-12. Maybe even better, look at the Super Drifter (which was the precursor to the Air Cam).

Gorilla,
I've got about 8 flights in trikes, and am thinking about buying an Airborne Trike next year. You should go try triking. It's pretty cool.

 

[Berkut]

Mr Farrington was a real high time instructor, and he got himself killed a few years ago. That was at Sun 'n' Fun, I think.

Mr. Farrington had a heart attack in the air and died later of complications.

 

[Huggyu2]

Berkut,
Thanks. I did not know that. I only caught the initial reports.

 

[fokkers&beer]

Sportcopter in Scappoose, Oregon makes a nice product too.

 

[avbug]

The gyro has received a bad rap, but the truth is, it's perhaps the safest aircraft in which you can fly. It needs almost no (and sometimes none) takeoff space, little landing space, and flies in a constant stateof autorotation. One needn't be concerned about losing an engine and transitioning to autorotation; you're already there. Low rotor inertia isn't an issue, nor is rotor RPM; once it's spinning and it's in flight, it takes care of itself without any pilot input.

Tail rotor issues are non issues because one isn't needed; torque isn't an issue. The gyro is almost intuitive in nature to fly; it's flown more like an airplane than a helicopter, and there's no collective to worry about or bury in an emergency.

Gyros got a bad rap over the years because for a long time, little existed in the way of any formal training; most all gyro operations were experimental, often build it yourself and learn to fly it yourself, at great peril. Lacking more modern understanding of light sport gyros, pusher gyros have often lacked any significant hoizontal stabilization. This, coupled with a traditionally significant offset between center of gravity, lift, and thrust, certain conditions could be achieved that lead to a "bunting" or power pushover...usually the result of a pilot induced oscillation. The results were often fatal.

Better training, better industry standardization (which is ongoing), closer regulation, support organizations such as the Popular Rotorcraft Association (and Ask First Society) have lead to vast improvements in safety, reliability, performance, design, etc. PRA has an FAA exemption to provide instruction in experimental gyros such as the Groen Brothers light offering...and a number of other safe and proven industry designs such as the Magni.

For most, tackling a gyro rating is for no other reason than personal satisfaction...but if you're so inclined, look into it. It's fun, it's safe, and like delving into any other area of aviation, it teaches you things about whatever it is that you do now that can only benifit you.

 

[socalpilot]

deleted

 

[FlierDude]

The gyro has received a bad rap, but the truth is, it's perhaps the safest aircraft in which you can fly.

So why does such a big percentage of the pilots manage to kill themselves?

Do you have any gyro experience?

Not to flame, but the gyro/homebuilt helo segment has a pretty poor overall safety record.

I've got a Kolb Twinstar MkII, the view is much like a helo or gyro. Stalls around 35-38, and is designed by the only aircraft designer in the EAA Hall of fame, Homer Kolb. He designed it as a small aircraft, not an ultralight.

 

[avbug]

Do you have any gyro experience?

Yes, I do. Do you?

So why does such a big percentage of the pilots manage to kill themselves?

They do not. However, many of the older hands in the gyro community have had more than one crash. This does not mean the aircraft is unsafe. It means that a lot of pilots built their gyros from plans and taught themselves to fly the aircraft with no outside input.

Gyros have become safer and safer. The Popular Rotorcraft Association and other organizations have done a great deal to work toward safer training, safer designs, etc. A modern gyrocopter is perhaps the safest aircraft one can fly, assuming one is properly trained.

Many of the gyroplanes in use in the sport world right now are single pilot ultralight ships, which require no pilot certificate and no legal training. Such aircraft are extremely safe, but the common denominator is the instructor. Ample training is available if pilots will seek it out. Those who don't are asking for trouble...every bit as much as anyone in any other type of aircraft that presumes to teach themselves everything they need to know.

The gyro can land in a very small space, maintains it's rotor RPM within a narrow range regardless of engine power or airspeed, can be landed extremely slowly, flies very similiarly to an airplane, is in a constant state of autorotation and has no collective to worry about (excepting a few gyros with jump capability), and has very simple systems. With the exceptions of pilot induced oscillation and buntover situations, both of which are within the pilot's ability to prevent, the gyro represents the safest of almost any aircraft design out there...including balloons.

Not to flame, but the gyro/homebuilt helo segment has a pretty poor overall safety record.

No, the gyrocopter and experimental helicopter community really doesn't. Particularly as few stats are kept or known regarding the total number of gyros in use. Modern experimental helicopters such as the Helicycle are seeing some great success, as has the rotorway executive. Don't forget that many fixed wing designs today, including a number of certificated designs, were experimental for many years...such as the Cirrus.

The Groen Brothers Sparrowhawk gyrocopter is an extremely stable, safe design which has an outstanding safety record. The training available, quality control, oversight, and support are as good as any, leading to the safety record the aircraft enjoys. Compare that to the Benson Gyro, the most commonly thought of, available through any magazine ads back cover, flown by any-man, gyro. Big differrence on all counts. It's not the aircraft. It's the pilot/builder.

As always.

 

[Say Again Over]

Avbug, what to you think about this report:

He bled off his rotor speed in a turn and fell out of the sky like a stone

Is this bad information from the uninformed? For the person looking for the flying motorcycle:http://www.thebutterflyllc.com/ Looks like fun!

 

[avbug]

I haven't seen the report, only part of a quote that could be from anywhere. A characterstic of the gyroplane or gyrocopter is that rotor speed remains relatively constant. One can get slow on airspeed and can obtain an excessive descent rate, just as with a fixed wing. But lack of rotor RPM usually isn't the issue. Poor piloting is.

The RPM remains constant. One can horse the gyro into a zero airspeed condition and climb for a time, even at idle, merely by pulling back on the stick. One can descend at a very low airspeed but high rate of descent, while maintaining the rotor RPM. Varying fore and aft stick (cyclic) varies descent rate in the gyro, but in its constant state of autorotation, unlike a helicopter, the rotor RPM remains constant.

Where's the rest of the article?