Green Cards for all?

[Kid Charlemagne]

The big picture

Folks,

Keep your eye on the ball here. We're drowning in a flood of immigration that will have profound effects on our country...almost of all of them negative, to say the least.

Economics is not the only issue. The demographic changes will have a tremendous impact on our culture, language, type of government, freedoms, etc. We are really facing a double-whammy here since these recent arrivals have a much higher birthrate than the more-established European segment of the population. Keeping in mind that all children born on American soil automatically become U.S. citizens, you can imagine what lies ahead. As they become able to vote, they will vote in more and more spending and entitlement/welfare programs that will put even more tax burdens on the benighted middle class who are already struggling. At that point it starts to become a vicious circle....while the politicians just continue to pander.

Once you have a third-world population, you will soon have a third-world country. And unlike cities or skyscrapers, genotypes can't be rebuilt. It becomes more and more apparent that the system has irretrievably broken down...

As for the effect on our industry, I find it difficult to make any specific predictions....other than we too will be impacted by this debacle at some point.

In the meantime, enjoy yourself and spend some time with your family...or go fishing or to a ballgame. How's that "Police" song go?....."when the world is runnin' down, you make the best of what's still around"....

Peace out!!

 

[jetexas]

Kid Charlemagne...
I couldn't agree with you more.
There used to be a time when immigrants came over and wanted to make a difference. The more established populations from "home" countries would refuse to converse with the newcomers in their native tongue. Afterall, you were not Polish, German, Czech, Russian, etc anymore...you were a new "American". No hyphenated nationality/creed...American. You were expected to play by the rules, adhere to customs, speak the language and contribute to society using your newfound freedoms.
It seems more and more people come here to take, not give. There are segmented cultures in this country that refuse to assimilate, refuse to spend the time and effort to learn the language. They take. They further their ignorance through laziness. They take "land of opportunity" to mean..what can you give me.
We are ignorant. We are giving in to this.

 

[vc10]

Horse hockey. The wealth of this country is founded on technology. Without immigrants we'd be totally hosed on that front because the US education system thoroughly fails to produce enough Americans who have the requisite skills. Silicon Valley depends on highly educated immigrants, for instance. The avionics on your aircraft were probably designed with the aid of immigrant engineer skills.

As for the European background, there was a time when Eastern Europeans were regarded as thoroughly alien. Heck, there was a time when the Irish were regarded as little better than dogs. There was a time when the US fretted about the number of German immigrants---who had schools, newspapers, etc, all of their own. There was a time when the US worried about the assimilation of Eastern European Jews---about 100 years ago.

100 years from now, current non-European immigrants will be as thoroughly assimilated as the Irish, Germans, etc are today. All we'll have to show for it is a better national cuisine than we do now (Asian food is awesome, man). Not to mention some very good looking Eurasian kids... The amount of European/Asian intermarriage in this country is already high.

 

[jayme]

Wow! An open mind! How refreshing.

As for Jet Texas and Kid Charlamagne: Do you really believe that if Mexicans immigrate, that will be a detriment to American society? Who the FU.K do you think you are? You two somehow know who can and can't make this country better? America is a great country for many reasons. I'm CERTAIN that an influx of any race will not hurt our society in any way.

Later.

 

[jetexas]

My point is that massive "illegal" immigration combined with no regard to a contribution or assimilation to society is bad for the country..socially and economically.
.We don't have enough infrastructure support for folks who want to take advantage of the system without undue harm to the law abiders already here. What kind of culture/society will we have if we have many different sects with differing agendas dragging the rest of us down? What will happen to our identity. Will being an "American" still mean anything?

 

[LAZYB]

Yeah a twit for the LA Daily News, on the opinion(like arse holes-everyone's got one) page, agreed that we had an illegal alien problem. That Bush's plan was a start. And to parphrase, the brain-dead, PC, mind numbing liberal, let's just make them legal!

If you have a problem with speeders - raise the limit.

If you don't have enough education and skills to get a job and support your "family" - just have more kids. Wait, we already reward that!

Can we afford to "import" anymore deep thinkers?

 

[vc10]

Last post on this.

Illegal immigrants, almost by definition, do not use as many of society's resources as other people because their illegal status means that a lot of times, they're not entitled to benefits (sometimes they are, most of the time, not). Beat up, rob, etc, an illegal, force their daughters into prostitution, they're not going to report it to the police, for instance.

They also work bad jobs---cleaning toilets, for instance---for low pay and therefore keep down the cost of many things for middle class Americans. If you threw out of the country every illegal immigrant, the cost of living would significantly increase---and that matters a lot for low paid regional pilots, for example.

The reality is, until the countries they come from become less ****ed up, illegal immigrants will continue to come to the US. We could, as a nation, spend more of our foreign policy resources trying to fix Mexico, etc, but instead we've chosen, rightly or wrongly, not to do that. Not our job to fix Mexico? OK, but that means a higher level of illegal immigration than otherwise.

 

[Pez D. Spencer]

vc10,
Personally, I don't think the solution is to offer citizenship - or even legal status - to illegal immigrants. Will they continue to cross the border, yeah. But, that will still happen when we naturalize those that are here presently and illegally for the sake of Bush's campaign.

What are we supposed to do, open the border to Mexico and forsake all those that apply for citizenship because they don't share a border with the US? Laws like that will never stand the test of time. What will result is a free-for-all.

The reality is when those mexicans are allowed legal work status, then the the low wage slave laborers will have to get a whole new contingent of illegals to do there work for illegal wages and conditions. The whole idea undermines even basic human rights. These people cross the border looking for the promised land and get screwed. Not to mention that american workers get screwed too by lowering the bar for the common wage and their tax money paying for a new contingent of underpriveleged citizens. No matter what altruistic point of view you take, it doesn't add up to anything but a a new scam for votes. I can't believe the Dem's didn't think of it first... actually, I bet they did.

jayme,
Your response was everything but open-minded. No one has claimed to know what's best for America, but a great thing about this country is that American's should have the right to voice their opinions on matters that affect their own country - where they were born, pay taxes, live and die, have children... etc.! We don't have to like it and we don't have to endorse it.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

jayme, wake up and smell the coffee!

jayme said:

"As for Jet Texas and Kid Charlamagne: Do you really believe that if Mexicans immigrate, that will be a detriment to American society? Who the FU.K do you think you are? You two somehow know who can and can't make this country better? America is a great country for many reasons. I'm CERTAIN that an influx of any race will not hurt our society in any way."


Dude,

Talk about sticking your head in the sand! Let me get this straight - you're "certain an influx of any race will not hurt our society in ANY way"?? What, you've got a crystal ball? Or are you just claiming to be omniscient? Gimme a freakin' break...

You ever spend much time in Haiti? How'd you like to live there? Didn't think so... We've already seen the virtual destruction of our inner cities over the past 40 years. So now we might as well lower ourselves to the conditions in Port-au-Prince I guess. Makes perfect sense.....

No politician has the guts to stand up and say what's what. They're too busy pandering and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Future generations will wonder how the heck it was possible for this to occur while we just sat around, twindling our collective thumbs and watching "Friends". All you gotta do is study the decline and fall of Ancient Rome....history repeats itself. And the media sure won't take a stand on this...I think we all know their story.

Another thing...those of you saying it's great to have these illegals here cause they work for slave-labor wages and so help keep down inflation.....then I guess we should start farming out flying jobs next, huh? I'm sure Juan Valdez would be very happy to fly a Saab or Jetstream for 8 bucks an hour instead of breaking his back picking strawberries all day for pennies.... And if it means you lose your job and can't support your family....oh well, you're helping to make this country great by keeping down costs right? Beautiful, man!

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Marshall Plan for Mexico??

vc10 said:

"The reality is, until the countries they come from become less ****ed up, illegal immigrants will continue to come to the US. We could, as a nation, spend more of our foreign policy resources trying to fix Mexico, etc, but instead we've chosen, rightly or wrongly, not to do that. Not our job to fix Mexico? OK, but that means a higher level of illegal immigration than otherwise."


OK,

Now I understand. It's our responsibility to fix Mexico. If we are so irrational that we prefer to keep some of our money to support our families instead of sending it down a rathole into Mexico...then the Mexicans have every right to break our laws and come here illegally and we DESERVE it??? Are you actually serious??

I could care less what Vincente Fox thinks and I don't think Bush should care either. And if he threatens to send a flood of illegals, the dregs of Mexican society over the river....then I'd be d--ned if I'd give in to such blackmail. Here's a novel idea...how about building a wall? If the Commies built walls to keep their own people in, why can't we build a wall to keep people out? If we have build a 2 thousand mile long wall along the Rio Grande, then let's roll up our sleeves and get started! Finally I'd feel like my taxes were being spent on something useful!

That's all for now....but remember what George Orwell said: "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

 

[Draginass]

This is cheap political disengenuous pandering by Bush . . . his specialty. He knows this is DOA in Congress, but it may fool a few Mexican-American citizens (is that the PC name for these days?) It's a scam. Plain and simple. And even if genuine, it's grossly unfair to all the other people in the world who want to come here but whose own countries don't border the U.S.

We don't need more immigration, we need a lot LESS. Cheap labor is driving wages down on the jobs less-advantaged AMERICANS need.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Between low wage immigrant labor and Corporate America shipping all those blue and now white collar jobs overseas to places such as China and India-we can look forward to the middle class of this country being in a "world of hurt"!

 

[Ligeirinho]

Ok guys some of you are very right others very wrong way.
I am dual citizen first reason most people of my country come over here is unemployment. I would never live here where you can't vote for president (it's right you can vote for electoral college let me remind you but not for president). As my country offers freedom what you also don't have here (one more time let me remind you some words and human body parts are just censored from my TV and whoever says bad things about BUSCH goes jail). But the government here in the past supported some 25 years of dictatorship over there and made some loans to the dictators ruling and now guess what the country besides being the second biggest fleet in the word just after USA second most connected on internet biggest chiken meat pproducersecond in beefsecond if more computers on their houses first on all digital comunications first on bank system and succesful surgeries recently UN award to have decreased HIV spreading in 15% but besides all this this country pays 92% of their gross income in interest for a debit people didn't make and USA lend this money at more than 20% apr and here you can get money as cheap as 10% or less if you don't have good credit. And people from there just come here because the national unemployment rate is 25% and reaches 30% in some cities.So my point is if we want to stop illegal immigration and our salaries and jobs to be trashing (and yes I vote) we should first vote in null to show them we dont want 2 parties rule we don't want electoral college and we want the freedom they always talk about on TV speaches. Freedom to choose what to see on TV, freedom to choose our president and freedom to be free of trash working with minimum working rules instead of government lying to people about invading somebodies country because of a dictator that was never a threat (yes whoever is able to read any other language and follow news on non manipulated media knows what I'm saying) while the real reason was steal oil to try to not bankrupt our country USA with 3 to 4 buks per gallon on gas prices (and yes one more time let's get the masks out of our eyes that is the real price of the gas if was not for government susidizing gas) or do you guys think USA still have gas for all of us and the rest of the word is overpricing their gas? We need to finish think USA is above all including GOD we gotta stop think we have gas forever and stop buying 3 to 5 cars per person here stop sell subisidized meat contaminated with mad cow for almost 50 dollars pound of filet mignon and buy from countries like the one I mentioned for 3 yes 3 dollars pound of filet mignon there and they have healthy cattle as there different from here cow only eats grass no hormons no genetically modified food and no cancer or deceases on the food and give this people some jobs and opportunities to stay in their countries instead to come over here risking even their lifes.
Sorry about being long but this is really a long issue and we cannot be egoists.

 

[huncowboy]

Re: The big picture

Once you have a third-world population, you will soon have a third-world country. And unlike cities or skyscrapers, genotypes can't be rebuilt. It becomes more and more apparent that the system has irretrievably broken down...
Peace out!!

I think you have some balls to state the politically incorrect. I agree 100%. Immigration is not going to change the face of this country too much as long you get a good mix of immigrants who came here to adopt, assimilate, and add. But this is no longer true. If you look around immigration boards you will see that the majority of people come from Asia, or India and South America. USA bashing is at all time highest. They don't like the way things are here. They came to change everything and refuse to even try to change themselves. And they will succeed because those nations have a characteristic of mass breeding. A great recipe for 3rd world.

It is already sad that there are parts of this country where you can't buy a coke if you don't speak 2 languages at least. Why? Not because the guy behind the counter can't speak English but because he refuses to. The English test on the citizenship interview is a joke. How can you give someone a USA passport who is not willing to learn English? WTF is going on?

Don't take me wrong I have no problem with any race or color in specific. My best friends in college were Indians. Most of them were on the Dean's list. Smart fellows. The mass importation then the mass breeding of specific cultures is what I don't like.

After all I did not come to this country to raise the Hungarian flag. But I am afraid in 20-30 years this country will be very different.

 

[jetexas]

It is already sad that there are parts of this country where you can't buy a coke if you don't speak 2 languages at least. Why? Not because the guy behind the counter can't speak English but because he refuses to. The English test on the citizenship interview is a joke. How can you give someone a USA passport who is not willing to learn English? WTF is going on?

Anybody ever been to Miami? I lived there for a year and was told on several occasions by the northern cubans there "you live in Miami, you need to speak spanish now". I moved when the whole Elian Gonzales thing happened and I saw masses of people around the city waving Cuban...read...communist flags. We are gonna be in serious hurt if the whole country becomes like this example. Oh, you're in "our" part of the country now. That's about as "un-American" as I can imagine.