Great Lakes.....?

[flyer31]

Any thoughts on flying for these guys to get a foot in the door? Good, bad, yes, no..... I would like to get twin turbine time and need some advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tooslow]

Stay away, you will regret it when the good ones call you for an interview while your in training after you signed a contract.....

 

[Cardinal]

Somebody asks this about every two weeks, so I'll throw out the same reply I always do.

Plan on upgrade taking a year. No strike just yet, we haven't been released, who knows if we'll ever be released. You'll get at least 30 days notice, anyway Medical is $62 per pay period for a single guy. Lakes is a lousy company, don't get me wrong, and they always turn up new ways to suck just a little bit more. Yet at the same time you can be happy here, especially if you have few external commitments, like a family. I like it, have fun, enjoy the flying, and the airplane ( of course it has it's annoyances) but go to work expecting to be screwed, and am not dissapointed. If you plan on leaving inside 15 months, they'll hunt you down for the $7500 non pro-rata training contract. As far as prorities, if you put your QOL even a little bit ahead of fast-track career progression you'll be unhappy. In the last few months our pilot group of 200 or so has seen 1 leave for SWA, 1 for FDX, 5 to Kallitta's Whale fleet, 3 to Express.net(A300), 1 to a corporate job. We've had more interview at SWA, FDX, CAL, and AWA, and last fall/winter saw an exodus to AWA and NJA.

If you don't mind an as%pounding for a few years, you'll love it. The people are great. DEN is the big base. PHX has opened, is seniorish on the Captain side, but fairly junior as far as FO's. 8 crews or so down there in. Prepare to be cold in winter, hot in the summer, get stupid comments from pax everyday on every flight, throw bags to get out on time and make your commute, be distrusted by mgmt, be the flight attendant bitch, and get paid nothing. Count on getting junior-manned down to 10 days off per month for at least half of any given year. If that sounds like fun to you, well then come on home.

Pretty much all of the meaningful commentary I can come up with I've posted recently, mostly here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=45343
and here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=45543
and a little bit here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=46332
and most recently:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=49690

 

[Cardinal]

Nothing against Tooslow, but note that he is a 4000 hour junior first officer. In addition, shiny-jet syndrome may be at work here, since last time I checked CAL does not operate ERJs. XJT does. There are tradeoffs with either path. Flying a turboprop tends to breed humility, but if you wan't to lie to your friends and tell them you fly a jet for CAL, well then XJT is a good place to do that.

 

[Tooslow]

yeah its called code-share, where a jet operator operates jets for a major airline! And I got a $#*% load of hours because of 9/11 and then got furloughed from ACA/Indy. I am not a junior FO either, 200 from upgrade after a year, moving up about 40 slots a month, 800 fo's behind me, moving up because captains are leaving to mainline Fed-Ex and UPS. Just to fill you in, since I guess you don't know much about who flies for who...

PS send me PM when you reach 4,000 hours, I bet you will still be waiting for that heavy job. With all the furloughed pilots out there, would you hire someone with jet-time or someone with turbo-prop time-PIC time being equal.....Who is more competitive....I rest my case...Thanks and have a nic day!

 

[Cardinal]

I'm sorry, your W-2 says Continental Airlines, Inc. on it? Didn't think so. I carry Frontier passengers, but I do not claim to work for Frontier. Further, your numbers on hiring are interesting, the Majors board would be interested to hear that 80% of CAL classes are ExpressJet guys. Tell your friend nimitz and Truckdriver they have nothing to worry about. http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=55213


.....And you'll have a heavy job when? I'm not bashing you or your career choices, just indicating that there might be "different roads to salvation." I do think it's absurd to assert that one works for a major when one does not.

 

[Tooslow]

OK whatever you want to hear, I got better things to do..

 

[Cardinal]

It's in your profile, dude.

If it sounds like somebody has pissed in my Cheerios, that's because somebody has. You may not be interested, but I'll tell my story.

My circle of friends is entirely non-aviation. I'd honestly explained my humble position in life, and everything was cool. Then another guy who most of my friends knew got a burr up his ass to be a pilot, went to a pilot factory,and got hired at Eagle. Next thing I know his mom and everbody I know is so excited because "he got hired at AMERICAN." "Isn't it great he went to AMERICAN." "Hey Cardinal, why don't you go to AMERICAN?" The general implication was that You must be a loser cause you're not at "AMERICAN". Lost on this bunch was the fact that American has thousands on furlough, this guy is slated to be a 7 year FO, and the standards for getting hired include a 98.6 degree body temp, a pulse, and a logbook. So yes, it pisses me off when people lie and claim to work for a company other than their own. I put you in this class based on your profile. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Superpilot92]

It's in your profile, dude.

If it sounds like somebody has pissed in my Cheerios, that's because somebody has. You may not be interested, but I'll tell my story.

My circle of friends is entirely non-aviation. I'd honestly explained my humble position in life, and everything was cool. Then another guy who most of my friends knew got a burr up his ass to be a pilot, went to a pilot factory,and got hired at Eagle. Next thing I know his mom and everbody I know is so excited because "he got hired at AMERICAN." "Isn't it great he went to AMERICAN." "Hey Cardinal, why don't you go to AMERICAN?" The general implication was that You must be a loser cause you're not at "AMERICAN". Lost on this bunch was the fact that American has thousands on furlough, this guy is slated to be a 7 year FO, and the standards for getting hired include a 98.6 degree body temp, a pulse, and a logbook. So yes, it pisses me off when people lie and claim to work for a company other than their own. I put you in this class based on your profile. Tell me I'm wrong.

Hey big shot,

Relax, I think you fail to realize that the people who "claim they work for Cal" actually were hired by CAL. YOu see i am a relativly new guy at XJET and when i was hired we were greated by guess who, Jim ream because he is our CEO. Well when they were hired by CAL/Continental Express at the time because they were the same company, guess who they were greated by? Gordon Bethune. They were hired and told if they put their time in with Express they had a job with CAL. After the spin off CAL offered Preferential interviews to a select few and some were hired and given letters of employment from CAL. So they have a right to be pissed that they are not being taken before OTS guys are and when they say they worked for CAL its because they did they just werent flying the CAL aircraft YET. Look i am not one of those guys but i do understand why they are so pissed and if you were in their shoes you would be to. Alot of those guys could have taken jobs at other major carriers but held out because they had the letter of intent from CAL and thats where they wanted to go. Give them a break man.

 

[Cardinal]

Tooslow ain't one of those guys, but yes, the PIGs do have a legitimate greivance. I would be irritated were I in their shoes.

I wanted to go to Express so bad it hurt. I was studying ERJ systems, I was such an eager dork. But the day the IPO went through things changed. After that point there was nothing but hollow sounding promises, and management can never be trusted. Even if they sign a contract they can't be trusted. Thus any gift from CAL after that date may have been deserved but can not have been expected. But again, a letter from CAL that say's "You're Hired!" still doesn't mean you work for them yet.

 

[IHaveAPension]

yeah its called code-share, where a jet operator operates jets for a major airline! And I got a $#*% load of hours because of 9/11 and then got furloughed from ACA/Indy. I am not a junior FO either, 200 from upgrade after a year, moving up about 40 slots a month, 800 fo's behind me, moving up because captains are leaving to mainline Fed-Ex and UPS. Just to fill you in, since I guess you don't know much about who flies for who...

PS send me PM when you reach 4,000 hours, I bet you will still be waiting for that heavy job. With all the furloughed pilots out there, would you hire someone with jet-time or someone with turbo-prop time-PIC time being equal.....Who is more competitive....I rest my case...Thanks and have a nic day!

Hey Cardinal, PM me and I'll take your app in and set you up with a meeting with the CP in MEM so you can get an interview here at FedEx and then you can tell that prick Tooslow who's the real "airline pilot" then!!!!

 

[Superpilot92]

I will agree that we as an industry pilot group shouldnt trust managment. I think its just a bit of a misunderstanding. I dont think they are saying they work for cal as much as they are saying they were promised the job. it just boils down to that this group of guys should get the job they were promised. Its to bad you didnt get on with XJET when you wanted to i know the feeling you are talking about. Its definitly a good company. Thats exactly why quite a few of the preferential guys are going to go to CAL now and are just staying at XJET. oh well only time will tell. Hey man good luck with your career.

Cya

 

[Cardinal]

IHaveAPension, I take back all the things I ever said about you

 

[gt1900]

Tooslow...Not that your completly wrong, but you may be. I guess your under the consideration that PIC Jet time in a RJ is sooo much better than PIC turboprop time. Let me tell ya, its not. Any major can pick between 2000 to 3000 (if not way more) RJ captains with over 2000 PIC turbine in an RJ anytime they want, they are a dime a dozen. Or, a 1900/120 guy who has been hand flying in and out of the Rocks with possibly the worst thunderstorms and winter weather (ever been to North Dakota in the winter) in the country. Who do you think they will choose. The guy with 3000 PIC turbine and 4500 total with 2 type, or the guy with 1000 PIC jet, 5500 total and one type. I'm not dogging RJ guys at all, but don't ragg on the Turboprop guys. Lakers do get hired by majors and LCC's all the time! But hell, what do I know. I'm just a lowly Boeing driver!!!

 

[Guitar Guy]

And now, back to our originally-scheduled thread topic

Cardinal is spot-on with his asessment of GLA. It is an entry-level job, the pay and benefits aren't what they should be, and the schedules and junior-manning can be very irksome. But that said, you can move on to the left seat fairly quickly and you will learn to fly there - no autopilot. Plus, flying over the Rockies will give you a lot of experience that a low-lander will not get. And most importantly, the pilot group is very close-knit, which makes it fun. Lastly, I'll add that the chief pilot is a very good guy.

If I can add one more piece of advice, if at all possible, do NOT commute. Yes, it can be done but your life will be a lot more enjoyable if you aren't having to scramble for a ride to work/home or having to bid a so-called commutable schedule. On top of that, DEN can be a difficult place to get to during the summer, the holidays, ski season, spring break...

Best of luck to you.