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Great Lakes
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vanguardsdead
Member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2002
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- 9
I was there from 98 to 01. The training isnt bad, you just have to stay awake and perform well during flight training or you will get nuked. I actually miss some of the flying out there in the rockies. Have fun and dont get to digruntled, remember...Lakes is a stepping stone and it should go well.
Heavy_D_Driver
Active member
- Joined
- May 5, 2003
- Posts
- 41
What Training Department?
Great Lakes does not have a training department. They have a checkride department. Groundschool is pretty much a self study course. A typical study assignment in initail groundschool goes something like this- "Ok, for tomorrow study the ops specs, Part 91, the ground icing appendix, Part 121, and the AIM. We'll have a quiz on all that tomorrow. Oh and also start looking at the flows and profiles because a lot of newhires lately have been sucking pretty bad at those." (The reason that newhires have been "sucking" on their flows is because the "training" department no longer is giving newhires cockpit posters and they got rid of the BE-1900D cockpit mockup. Why would you get rid of a cockpit mockup? It's not like a few pieces of cardboard in the shape of an instrument panel was costing a lot of money to maintain.
Great Lakes does not have a training department. They have a checkride department. Groundschool is pretty much a self study course. A typical study assignment in initail groundschool goes something like this- "Ok, for tomorrow study the ops specs, Part 91, the ground icing appendix, Part 121, and the AIM. We'll have a quiz on all that tomorrow. Oh and also start looking at the flows and profiles because a lot of newhires lately have been sucking pretty bad at those." (The reason that newhires have been "sucking" on their flows is because the "training" department no longer is giving newhires cockpit posters and they got rid of the BE-1900D cockpit mockup. Why would you get rid of a cockpit mockup? It's not like a few pieces of cardboard in the shape of an instrument panel was costing a lot of money to maintain.
Whirlwind
Fling-wing pilot
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Posts
- 356
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 2,308
It isn't realy that "horrific," although I can agree with much of what HeavyD Driver says. You just have to have your act together, because there isn't any handholding. Lakes' initial groundschool is something like 40% shorter than Skywest's. 10-20% don't complete it. If you lack the memorization ability to pass the quizzes or if you aren't studying all evening every evening, you'll get booted. If you can't fly instruments , can't mentally multitask, and consistently get lost, you'll get booted out of the simulator. If you can't fly the airplane after 3-5 hours, you'll get booted. If your line check airmen (plural, if one isn't happy you can be paired wih another) doesn't sign you off for IOE, you'll get booted. If you don't know EVERYTHING about the Beech 1900, the FSM, the FOM, and the FAR/AIM as it applies, you'll fail the upgrade pretest - and for upgrade it's all self-study. Internally, I've heard relatively few "horror" stories, but seen alot of people get what they deserve, or as the case may be, not get what they didn't deserve. And consider the upside to a challenging training environment - the vast majority of the FO's will have ther $hit together, and every Captain deserves their seat. That's a positive.
canadflyau
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Posts
- 437
Yes lakes is hiring. They have had a class every month for the last couple of months, and plans for the same into 2004.
About the training. I don't agree with what was posted earlier. To call it a checkride dept is to insult Matt, Nate, Forbes and others whom I think did an outstanding job in PREPARING me for the systems test and throughout flight training for the checkride. Albeit, they do want you to wash early in the 1900 sim if you don't demonstrate the basics that they don't spend time teaching. They are teaching to operate the a/c not how to fly.
The comments seemed more directed and indoc (which frustrates everyone) Lakes had some past problems with Indoc.. people felt it was a freebie, and did not learn the material. Thus now they are using their solution to that problem, which does make it feel like a self study. Remeber, teaching to the test will do nothing but hurt you.. and they want you to know it all...
About the training. I don't agree with what was posted earlier. To call it a checkride dept is to insult Matt, Nate, Forbes and others whom I think did an outstanding job in PREPARING me for the systems test and throughout flight training for the checkride. Albeit, they do want you to wash early in the 1900 sim if you don't demonstrate the basics that they don't spend time teaching. They are teaching to operate the a/c not how to fly.
The comments seemed more directed and indoc (which frustrates everyone) Lakes had some past problems with Indoc.. people felt it was a freebie, and did not learn the material. Thus now they are using their solution to that problem, which does make it feel like a self study. Remeber, teaching to the test will do nothing but hurt you.. and they want you to know it all...
propjob27
I have people skills!
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2003
- Posts
- 469
I was there from Jan 99 to Aug of 99. I pretty much agree with the above posts, it wasn't easy.
They give these little bull$hit quizzes everyday in groundschool, which arent "graded" but the intstructors use them to "see if anyone is having problems" or something like that. There are only 2 graded tests, if nothing has changed. Standard 80% or better on both to pass.
Having said all that, out of the 3 airlines I have flown for, Lakes, SkyWest, and ATA, Lakes' training and sim was definately the hardest to get through. But, of course, I was just a 1000 hour CFI, like most people, when I started @ Lakes. If I'd had more experience, I'm sure it would have been easier.
They give these little bull$hit quizzes everyday in groundschool, which arent "graded" but the intstructors use them to "see if anyone is having problems" or something like that. There are only 2 graded tests, if nothing has changed. Standard 80% or better on both to pass.
Having said all that, out of the 3 airlines I have flown for, Lakes, SkyWest, and ATA, Lakes' training and sim was definately the hardest to get through. But, of course, I was just a 1000 hour CFI, like most people, when I started @ Lakes. If I'd had more experience, I'm sure it would have been easier.
canadflyau
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Posts
- 437
Fuzz
Fuzz-
If you do the ATL-DEN better give us a shout on company... yeah the 717 is a pale comparison to the Taco-turbine...
Keep in touch.. same old Lakes different day.. expansion with Frontier in the emb here and there.. we have chaos/battle parking now that all spots are on the North side... and thanks to your help in the past we are making progress for release...
about it
Fuzz-
If you do the ATL-DEN better give us a shout on company... yeah the 717 is a pale comparison to the Taco-turbine...
Keep in touch.. same old Lakes different day.. expansion with Frontier in the emb here and there.. we have chaos/battle parking now that all spots are on the North side... and thanks to your help in the past we are making progress for release...
about it
propjockey
Supreme Commander
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2001
- Posts
- 245
Lakes training
It's true what everyone says about drinking from the fire hose at Lakes. I've done it. I have many friends who have gone from Lakes to bigger-and-better places. ALL of them have told me what a cakewalk training was at their new airline. They always say "If you can pass Lakes training, you can pass anywhere." We have also earned a reputation for "knowing how to fly" that serves us well when it's time to move on.
And Lakes is a very tight little fraternity. There are a lot of Lakers on the outside that help out when it's time to be looking for other places. And it's still a VERY quick upgrade by industry standards.
Most people who bag on Lakes don't really know what they're talking about.
It's true what everyone says about drinking from the fire hose at Lakes. I've done it. I have many friends who have gone from Lakes to bigger-and-better places. ALL of them have told me what a cakewalk training was at their new airline. They always say "If you can pass Lakes training, you can pass anywhere." We have also earned a reputation for "knowing how to fly" that serves us well when it's time to move on.
And Lakes is a very tight little fraternity. There are a lot of Lakers on the outside that help out when it's time to be looking for other places. And it's still a VERY quick upgrade by industry standards.
Most people who bag on Lakes don't really know what they're talking about.
Flyingtoohigh
Think of the Kittens
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2003
- Posts
- 190
canadflyau
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Posts
- 437
canadflyau
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 2, 2002
- Posts
- 437
We are gunning for one of our own, like Rex, for Pomey's replacement...
We got denied our release from the NMB and are slated to sit back down with the comapany in FEB. 4+ yrs and running, no contract... no end in sight... the RLA is used for toilet tissue in CYS, and the Federal Gov is kind enough to send it to them in CYS for their continued use.
So hope for an end being in sight, is gone again. If you remember the 800 number call it for a good laugh. I am sure you especially would find it humorous... b/c Lakes put such a gracious offer on the table that we were ordered to continue meeting... THE OFFER: our current contract... Fuzz- from your experience, do you think they (GLA-mgt) will even show up to the meeting in Feb?
We got denied our release from the NMB and are slated to sit back down with the comapany in FEB. 4+ yrs and running, no contract... no end in sight... the RLA is used for toilet tissue in CYS, and the Federal Gov is kind enough to send it to them in CYS for their continued use.
So hope for an end being in sight, is gone again. If you remember the 800 number call it for a good laugh. I am sure you especially would find it humorous... b/c Lakes put such a gracious offer on the table that we were ordered to continue meeting... THE OFFER: our current contract... Fuzz- from your experience, do you think they (GLA-mgt) will even show up to the meeting in Feb?
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DCitrus9
Son of a son of a sailor
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 273
Rex, as in C."A" Rex for C.P.? Sweeeet!
Although, I think he'd be better as a 717FO- "gear up, b!tch"
Can someone PM me the ops freq? I did a DEN turn two weeks ago and couldn't remember it. I did get a little bit misty eyed seeing the mighty beech taxiing by at V1!
Why is Pomy leaving?
Although, I think he'd be better as a 717FO- "gear up, b!tch"
Can someone PM me the ops freq? I did a DEN turn two weeks ago and couldn't remember it. I did get a little bit misty eyed seeing the mighty beech taxiing by at V1!
Why is Pomy leaving?
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Everything said here about Lakes training is true: self study, fire hose, earn your seat, etc.
Most of the Lakes bashing comes from those who have never worked there.
That was the most fun job I've ever had (LAN EMB-120 FO, 2000-2001), even though management treated us like dirt. That really pulls crews together.
Good luck with the contract, Lakers. We're all pulling for you.
Most of the Lakes bashing comes from those who have never worked there.
That was the most fun job I've ever had (LAN EMB-120 FO, 2000-2001), even though management treated us like dirt. That really pulls crews together.
Good luck with the contract, Lakers. We're all pulling for you.
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