Great Lakes Furloughs Again

[Heavy_D_Driver]

Well, it's true. I got my certified letter in the mail today that said that I would not be flying after May 15 for Great Lakes, at least for the foreseable future. Great Lakes already had 7 guys on furlough in March. Another 17 got the letter today (I am one of them) and supposedly if things continue as they are another 6 will get a letter saying that their services are no longer needed after June 1st. Yep, I already faxed my resume into Commutair and anywhere else that said that they were hiring.


PEACE OUT!

 

[English]

Sorry to hear it.

You have 1900 time? Send your resume to Colgan as well.

 

[T-Gates]

Sorry to hear about the furlough.

Send your stuff to Commutair, they're hiring like mad for the CLE base opening. Colgan put on a hiring freeze a month ago, I don't know if it is still in effect or not.

Good Luck,

--03M

 

[canadflyau]

What ever happened to the 10 or so the CP was telling us about last Monday??? Regardless, where the heck is our union!!! They are nowhere!! No one is telling pilots to stop picking up open time, and to fly guarantee only... I really am beginning to feel our union is a joke..

Before I got furloughed at my last carrier, the company announced some possible furloughs, and boom the MEC got the word out "DO NOT TOUCH OPEN TIME!! and GUARANTEE ONLY!" and the remedy for most was found.. Here at Lakes we are eating our young!! The furlough is basically so they can eliminate 7 lines and spread the remaining time among the remaining lines... a whopping $150-$250... AND THAT ISN'T WORTH IT TO ME!!!

I hope every single furloughed pilot is crawling up the teamsters butts.. I am close to demanding my dues back (if I could)... no contract (or even headway) and not doing anything to protect jobs.. I am ready to walk, and have been looking for employment as well!

Guys/gals who are getting furloughed, let me know if there is anything I can be making folks aware about here before I get put on the street... I will be very very close in June.

My condolences to you all.. I have walked in two differnet pairs of "furloughed" shoes and feel your pain/frustration. Sincerely, canadflyau

 

[embdrvr]

It's friggin unbelievable that people need to be told that they should not pick up open time when their brothers (and sisters) are on the street. There is no excuse for that. None.
I agree with you that the union should be getting the word out and educating the membership but to me that's just common sense.

 

[canadflyau]

No one is telling pilots to stop picking up open time, and to fly guarantee only...

Maybe I should say " No one is reminding pilots to stop picking up open time, and to fly guarantee only..." Embdrvr I couldn't agree with you more, but after we heard about the furloughs, we were shown how the new "beefed" up lines were looking, and I could be wrong but I thought I heard people complimenting the change.. very disheartening

 

[Wally]

...where the heck is our union!!! They are nowhere!! No one is telling pilots to stop picking up open time, and to fly guarantee only... I really am beginning to feel our union is a joke...

Just curious canadlyau, but when you say "no one" is telling pilots, you do mean no one except for you, right? Your union is a joke because your pilot group is a joke. You have to remember that you and each of the pilots make up the union and if you and the majority of the group do nothing, then indeed, the union is a joke. What have you and your peers done to change things? To get the word out? To direct your complaints in mass to management? Or even to direct your complaints to your union leaders? Maybe you're bitching on this site in hopes they may read it and do something about it?
Good luck, and I mean that more sincerely than you could know, but until (or if) the attitude changes amongst the pilot/employee group, it will be a difficult road.

Peace,
W

 

[canadflyau]

Wally-
You are totally right! However maybe I am wrong about the teamsters here, but the last carrier I flew with was ALPA, and until you were no longer a "probationary pilot" you were not allowed to get into a capacity with the Union, for your own sake... At least that is how that MEC did it. Once probation was over, join any commitee get as involved as you want, but lay low untill probationary period is complete.

But how would I know? I have never met with the union, never been a focus of a membership drive.. I just joined as soon as I completed training b/c I know that is what you do.. in fact I had to make phone calls to track down how to get the paperwork to sign up!!!

Maybe you and I see diferently, but I think effective leadership starts at the top and finds a way to keep the constituants abreast and involved. Lead is in the word leadership and quite frankly I haven't seen that. Heck these folks volunteered, no one forced them into these positions.

I have only been on the property here for months and could be off base... but furloughs usually means we (a union) go into emergency mode and start raising flags and get direction from our union leaders on what steps we are taking to stop these layoffs, and reverse the trend... Especially when layoffs are to "beef up" of hours (+10) of the remaing lines.

That is how I see it from the very bottom of the seniority list...... and Wally your right, I will be doing even more legwork to see if I can get more involved, very similar to how I got myself signed up for the union in the first place.

Maybe you're bitching on this site in hopes they may read it and do something about it?

Well Wally you couldn't be more off base.. First and foremost, I hate hearing that fellow pilots where I work are going to experience a pain I have been through. It digs deep and hits home, all the byproducts I can speak of first hand of from my furloughs. I have called the teamsters and left several messages, and posted on the very unfrequented Union boards. My status as probationary, and quite frankly unfamiliarty with teamsters or my local reps (I wouldn't know them if they punched me in the face... I fly a whopping 15hrs a month on the Emb so am never at the airport and not flying with any reps that I know of.) I know you aren't clairvoyant, but don't jump to conclusions about my status. I am not sitting on my duff giving no care about whats going on... I call our "hotline" religiously for the bi-monthly updates, and frequent the message boards. At this point in my career I am an eager follower, and there is and should be a place for pilots like me in every union. Every band needs a conductor, and every conductor needs a band... We would be totally ineffective if we had hundreds of conductors, and no one to carry out their direction.

You get my point. Take Care, canadflyau

 

[Cardinal]

Well shoot.

 

[BRA]

what DOH do they go back to?

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe I should say " No one is reminding pilots to stop picking up open time, and to fly guarantee only..." Embdrvr I couldn't agree with you more, but after we heard about the furloughs, we were shown how the new "beefed" up lines were looking, and I could be wrong but I thought I heard people complimenting the change.. very disheartening

The APA learned a big lesson on this a couple of years ago. The RLA prohibits any self-help action until being released by the NMB. An official union statement telling the pilot group not to pick up open time is considered a self-help action. The APA got fined considerably for their statements to the pilots to not pick up open time. The union can't really make any official statements to the pilot group about this, but the pilots themselves should know better.

 

[embdrvr]

I thought there was more to that APA lawsuit than not picking up open time. Anyone remember the details?
Time to start leaving notes in the airplane?
Suggested verbiage:
Respect the furloughees. Say no to open time!

 

[Redtailer]

Well, you can blame it on the national union if you want, but that is only one part of the equation. Several other carriers are teamsters and their unions are doing a very good job, however I do understand the lack of support compared to ALPA.

Bottom line is this, blaming IBT is not your whole problem. The BIG problem is the MEC at Lakes. They have only one objective in mind, that's to line their own pockets. Check their track record if you are new to the company. It is one of disgust and are an embarassment to the profession.

But, no one stays there long enough or cares to vote them out so they stay in office forever and maintain the status quo. (ex. FO pay under $17000/yr. for the last 10 years, allowing 10 leg days, and routine violations of the contract by the company going un-challenged.)

 

[fuzzy077]

The BIG problem is the MEC at Lakes. They have only one objective in mind, that's to line their own pockets.

What the heck is this supposed to mean? The MEC at Lakes doesnt make a frickin dime to do any Union work.

 

[canadflyau]

The BIG problem is the MEC at Lakes. They have only one objective in mind, that's to line their own pockets.

Good question Fuzzy... Yes I am new Redtailer, but I have no idea how pockets are getting lined? Can you share how please?

I am not upset with Teamsters National. From my previous experience with ALPA I would assume that the Teamsters are set up the same, and when I refer to "Teamsters" I of course mean here at Lakes. However with that said, in my phone calls to the Teamsters HQ, I called them after they put out the press release b/c at the end of the release it stated Great Lakes operates B-1900's from 5 hubs Chicago, Minney, Page, Denver, and Cheyenne. I read the release and thought, our mgt in CYS is laughing at this saying "that pilot union is way behind the times (LOL)" When I spoke with the guy down there he said he not been informed that we were not hubbed at all those places anymore and that we "still" flew the EMB. He said "its great to hear from someone, thanks for the heads up! How are things going there?" That raised a flag to me about the involvement on the National side.

I would agree and say high turnover is a problem for our union, but with the proper steps and oversight from National I would thing that smooth transitions could occur without total loss of progress. I am making a guess here, but I think more involvement and support from National would help our leaders do their job, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Wally]

...you can blame it on...
...no one stays there long enough...

Big Red,

Why don't you refer to my previous post. If the MEC sucks, then why doesn't the group do something? Or maybe the pilot group sucks by not supporting unified causes? Maybe they all suck and Doug will be the ultimate victor. We can play the blame game all day long, but when it comes down to it, the people whose fate depends on these leaders should demand better of not only their leaders, but themselves.
I don't know if you currently work at Lakes, but if you do, why don't you do something to help. If you don't work there any longer, then I guess you too are part of the problem as you pointed out above. In that case, we're all ears for suggestions.

By the way, I'd like to hear you back up your accusation how anyone is lining their pockets in the union. As Fuzzy points out correctly, all Lakes pilot union positions are voluntary.

Seeeeeeeeee ya,
W

 

[Redtailer]

You know what, you're right. It is the fault of the pilot group for not putting their collective foot down in years past so that they could have a decent way of life. Of course the reason is that most of the pilots that worked at Lakes had the attitude of not being there long and they had other things to worry about.

I guess it's only just now coming up to bite them since there is really no place to go now.

As far as lining their own pockets, for the most part the position is unpaid, but I believe there is some type of compensation for the union work above the normal flight pay. Also, to believe that there were no kickbacks for a contract that was written in favor of management is not out of the realm of possibility. Honestly, I have never seen a contract so worded in management's favor and at the same time so abhorent to the pilots. I can't believe I would ever say it but you would be better off without a contract.
Also, I know of NO union that would tolerate an 60-80% failure rate in the training department. That may or may not be true today, but it was true as recently as 2 years ago. But, the same officers were in place for all of the preceding years.

Just for the record, I am not an employee but have known and flown with several over the years. Great group of employees, but the top on both the management and union sides not only suck, but appear to be in bed together to produce that toilet paper they call a contract.

canadflyau:

The ALPA and IBT are similarly setup, but the support on the national level is the difference. The IBT national really does not do a great job compared to ALPA, but the pilot group is what make the IBT work at a particular airline.

 

[fuzzy077]

Redtailer has absolutely no clue. We dont get paid squat above normal guarantee for doing any union work. Besides, the current contract was the first contract ever for the GLA pilots and it does suck but thats what were in negotiations for now isn't it???
Love,
GLA EXCO Chairman

 

[canadflyau]

about the pilot group

You know my position so I will not reiterate... As far as the pilot group that keeps getting bashed about not "demanding more" and sitting on their butts, I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE!!

Since I have been here I have seen some major things done by the pilot group in 100% unison. 1)Making sure to follow the AIM's definition of a safe taxi speed 2) and 100% vote in favor of striking!!!

Until we are released I don't no that I could say we, as a pilot group could be doing more. We have given the people in the positions of our union all the backbone a pilot group can give, we voted 100% strike authorization.. That sounds like a resounding and resoulte group to me! Maybe I don't know the past inequities, but what I have seen thus far tell me we are all armed and ready to fire, we are just waiting for a target to aim at!

 

[Cardinal]

what DOH do they go back to?

If they also give another 6 the boot on June 1st, that will oust most or all of the October '02 class. August '02 hires would be safe. I think.