Great Lakes, Big Sky Questions.....

[Griff]

Howdy all! I'm an old guy (43) so time is critical. Interested in working my a$$ off upgrading quick and getting on with life, pretty much retiring from my current career. I am not interested in any "flight info" style career counseling, so don't waste your breath telling me I am crazy cuz I already know. But, I would really appreciate some insight into these two companies. Schedules, days off, rons, etc... I am currently flying part-time corporate sic in the northwest in a slowtation. Any info would be very appreciated!! I'll buy the beers and burgers. Thanks.

 

[flyf15]

Well, I know you didn't ask about it, but there are jet operators out there right now that are offering extremely fast upgrades. They have much better QOL and pay and well... they're easier jobs. I think Pinnacle's upgrade is something like 1500hrs at company if you don't have much total time. Thats only a year and a half to 2 years.

But, for Big Sky and Great Lakes... I don't know much really. They're both growing from what I've heard. Upgrades right when you hit 1500TT. Hard work. The pay is on airlinepilotcentral.com. Some nice bases (depending on where you want to live)

 

[Sberry]

As for Great Lakes upgrades are when you hit 1500TT, not a career place, but a good place to build some time and move on.

 

[Boris Badenov]

When you say Lakes upgrades at 1500TT, what if you start with 3000TT? How long to upgrade?

 

[be-400xpdriver]

When you say Lakes upgrades at 1500TT, what if you start with 3000TT? How long to upgrade?

As long at it takes for them to open and close the bid.

But then the question would be why in the hell would you go to GLA if you have 3000TT? I would not have worked there if I had that much time when I was hired.

 

[Boris Badenov]

No turbine time at all, no crew time at all, want turbine PIC crew time fast, and live in STL...

I know the answer to "QOL?" is going to be "awful", but can you quantify? Days off? Mostly day trips out of STL? Any other info greatly appreciated, particularly w/r/t how often the bids open and close...no pay during training and then $15/hour cannot be sustained for long.

Regards,
Boris

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Howdy all! I'm an old guy (43) so time is critical. Interested in working my a$$ off upgrading quick and getting on with life, pretty much retiring from my current career. I am not interested in any "flight info" style career counseling, so don't waste your breath telling me I am crazy cuz I already know. But, I would really appreciate some insight into these two companies. Schedules, days off, rons, etc... I am currently flying part-time corporate sic in the northwest in a slowtation. Any info would be very appreciated!! I'll buy the beers and burgers. Thanks.

GLA beat the hell out of you. No auto pilot no gps. The over night are ok for the most part except Rock Springs that place sucks (RICKSHAW!!). Schedule well they suck to. 10 days off a month min. If your line start with 12 days off just plan on getting jr.manned. to 10 days off. My schedule the last month I was there 3off 4 on 2 off 5 on 1 off 6 on 4off 10 on. Yes 10 on. 5 days of flying 5 days of recurrent.

But it was FUN!!

 

[Boris Badenov]

Thanks for the info. Any further insights? How long is unpaid training? How senior is STL? How long to hold a line? How often do upgrades happen (how long from in the door to left seat for (relatively) high time guy?)

Appreciate it.

 

[kansas]

Thanks for the info. Any further insights? How long is unpaid training? How senior is STL? How long to hold a line? How often do upgrades happen (how long from in the door to left seat for (relatively) high time guy?)

Appreciate it.

Unpaid training for me lasted a month to the day on the Beech, and it very easily could have been a week or so longer had not sim schedules, weather, etc. not cooperated as well as it did. Those that went to initial on the Brasilia were 6-8 weeks from start to finish. And then you've still got to wait another couple weeks for your paycheck to hit your account, of course. We're optimistic about STL, but nothing has officially happened yet. I'll believe it when we fly the first turn there. For now, looks like it's going to be the most junior base. Those that got hired in this last class are walking straight into holding a line, with a few sitting maybe a month of reserve. When I got hired, I ended up having to sit reserve for 5 1/2 months, which is very long for a Lakes FO. Upgrades are the same way...very cyclical. Right now, we're upgrading like mad, and anyone with ATP mins. is fully capable of taking their shot at the left seat. However, we have been known to stop upgrades for 6 months at a time as well, so who knows.

Best of luck.

 

[Sberry]

The only thing you need at Great Lakes right now in addition to the 1500TT is 300 hours of 121 or 135 turboprop time, if you have this you could hold Captain right out of ground school. As for STL it will be the most junior base in the whole system, not too many DEN people want to be in STL, the base will be opening in July

 

[Boris Badenov]

Hmmm. Don't have that. How long would it take to get 300 on the line? Incidentally, are y'all having any trouble filling F/O spots right now? No offense, but it seems like with $15/hour and no pay in training, it would be hard to compete. No trying to start a fight, and I'm still interested, just trying to figure whether there's likely to be a job there in a year.

 

[Sberry]

300 hours anywhere from 3-6 months depending on how much you fly, there are many pilots flying over 100 hours a month.

 

[Trogdor]

You would think that they would have a hard time filling the classes, but they aren't. The lure of a CA slot ASAP is hard to miss for some.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Howdy all! I'm an old guy (43) so time is critical. Interested in working my a$$ off upgrading quick and getting on with life, pretty much retiring from my current career. I am not interested in any "flight info" style career counseling, so don't waste your breath telling me I am crazy cuz I already know. But, I would really appreciate some insight into these two companies. Schedules, days off, rons, etc... I am currently flying part-time corporate sic in the northwest in a slowtation. Any info would be very appreciated!! I'll buy the beers and burgers. Thanks.

WOW! You are one sick S.O.B.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Er, one more question. Where does all of this unpaid training take place, and do they at least pick up the hotel?

 

[Griff]

Yes I am sick, twisted and just a little tweeked. Thanks for noticing! Fair Skys Y'all, and thanks for the information.

Griff

 

[tomcat]

Does GLA still train at Aimes College in Greeley?

 

[thepotato232]

GLA ground school is all done in Cheyenne, WY. Indoc and systems classes together take about three weeks, and you'll spend that time in the Plains Hotel, which is fairly nice. Your sim training will be done either at Aims College (Greeley, CO) or at Satco (Denver, CO) if you get the 1900, or at one of several more exotic locales if you get the Bro (the most recent captain upgrade I knew went to Long Beach). Flight training will take a week or so, and will be done at one of several Lakes bases (Cheyenne, North Platte, and Scottsbluff are the current ones). Lakes isn't having the kind of trouble filling newhire classes that Mesa is, but they are looking for fresh meat to fill their new schedules in STL, etc. Lakes is actually pretty damn healthy right now - this isn't a company where you'll have to worry about furlough or 8 months of reserve anytime soon, and the promise of the one-year Capt upgrade is alive and well.

Like Kansas said, training lasts about a month if there are no delays. During that time, you won't see a paycheck, and you won't see much of one after you're on the line, either. During training, GLA covers your hotel stays as well as Positive Space travel on company airplanes. Best of luck to you, Griff - you're probably crazy to be getting into this business now, so it's hopeful you're sick, twisted and tweaked enough for life as a Laker.

 

[Cardinal]

STL just got posted as a domicile, and is/will be way junior. CA's will be displaced out there to fill it, junior FO's will probably cycle through until we hire 15-odd STL natives, at which point progression will halt abruptly.

 

[Boris Badenov]

until we hire 15-odd STL natives, at which point progression will halt abruptly.

That sounds ominous. What do you mean exactly? I'm trying to figure out whether I can afford to be one of your STL natives. 6 months of FO pay is about the limit, maybe less.

 

[Cardinal]

Nothing's ever ominous at Lakes, just slightly less temporary. What I mean to say is that in the early days both seats will be quite junior in STL. As the base matures, both seats will grow more senior.

Take the PHX base: When it opened Lakes had just a handful of pilots that lived in PHX. Those pilots took it, and the rest of the base was staffed with people who would have had to commute anyway, to either DEN or PHX. At times a new captain could hold a line in PHX compared with reserve in DEN, so they bid PHX. As time goes on everybody learns that GLA has a PHX base, attracting more newhires that live in PHX. Thus over the course of a year or a little less PHX FO starts to go senior, as those pilots are now reluctant to upgrade because they may not hold PHX, and so become a big block of seniorish PHX FOs. NAtural attrition occurs, those FOs can now upgrade and stay in PHX, so they elect to do so, becoming a similar block of entrenched PHX CAs that aren't going anywhere for a while.

The situation will be similar in STL, except that we have all of 0 people who currently live in STL. People like yourself who never would have considered Lakes 6 months ago are suddenly attracted, and you'll never have to see Denver and will upgrade in a very resonable timeframe. You're the first wave, so don't worry. I can think of one captain who is even remotely interested in being STL based. You'll be one of the first newhires who actually wants to be there and isnt being displaced to Misery.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Sweet. Thanks for the info.

Incidentally, what would you expect the lines to be like in STL? I suppose that Lakes has Junior Manning, so I can probably expect to fly a lot. Which on $15/hour is probably a good thing. A lot of daytrips, or can I expect to overnight in exotic locales like Spingfield? Again, I realize that this is all speculative at this point, but any theories are appreciated. And thanks again.

 

[thepotato232]

I suppose that Lakes has Junior Manning, so I can probably expect to fly a lot.

Congratulations, you just passed your job interview!

If you're from STL and you want to fly, then you've probably found the right place. Despite the short-haul nature of the STL route structure, you'll likely see a lot of overnight trips. My guess is that there will be a lot of high-speed lines out there, if you'd like to pick those up in order to spend more time at home. With 15 crews out there (up from the originally-proposed 5), I don't know how much junior manning there will actually be. This is just my guess, but the first few months of GLA's STL service may not be very time-heavy for those crews.

 

[Trogdor]

Latest news: STL is on hold indefinately.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Thanks for the news. Back to the drawing board.

 

[thepotato232]

Yep, just got the STL news myself. Lakes just doesn't have the crews or the aircraft for that kind of expansion right now. The rule around here is still not to believe any news/rumors about domiciles until we're actually flying there. I can't see how Lakes could simply back out of the STL flying, so I would think that the addition of the domicile is more of a "when" question, rather than "if".

 

[Trogdor]

Its always an "if" around here.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Which base is junior? PHX or DEN?

 

[Trogdor]

PHX basically doesn't exist as a base anymore.