Great Lakes 4/8 Class

[meatwallet]

Great Lakes 4/4 Class?

Anybody here in the April 4th class?

Also, did I hear this correctly: Furloughed and recalled within 15 months or fired and you're still bound by the contract?!

 

[greygoose]

Good luck with them

 

[BizPilot]

yeah, really......GOOD LUCK........hope you enjoy eating ramon noodles

 

[Cardinal]

did I hear this correctly: Furloughed and recalled within 15 months or fired and you're still bound by the contract?!

That's the gist of it. Usually if you go to a different decent carrier the differential in first year pay is enough to buy out the training contract. Don't burn any bridges though, cause the cycle is continuing. For two years in a row they've furloughed in May/June, and the present hiring binge continues to match the past profile. Take the class date, it beats instructing, but have a backup plan handy.

 

[mamba20]

meat, dont listen to people who do nothing but bash lakes. I never flew for them and I'm glad I didnt, not for me. But it is a job that serves a purpose. Its a good place to get some time in a hurry and then get out and move on to something else, it will set you up well for a regional airline.
You know going into it that the pay and the lifestyle sucks so you cant really gripe about it later. I talked to a buddy of mine who flys there and no, if you are F$%ed by the company your no longer under the contract. Good luck, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Meatwallet (WTF?)

Lakes does typically furlough in the spring but I think it is a great opportunity. We are getting 4 or 5 new cities however so who knows what will happen. If you do get furloughed another regional will pick you up pretty quick and lakes won't ask for the training contract. If you quit they will make you pay. I have never gone through ground school anywhere else but training is no joke so be prepared to work your ass off, and wake sure your instrument skills are are sharp. I would take it if you don't have any other offers and good luck

 

[gt1900]

Yep.....Good luck....In 4 years you will be in the right seat flying for a major while your buddies at superior commuters are just upgrading to the left seat of a RJ (glorified turboprop). Don't do it, you will probably have more fun flying at Lakes than any other commuter in the country, you don't wanna fly to Telluride anyways. Don't do it, in the past 7 months, Lakes has lost people to Fedex, Southwest, Alaska, AirTran, and America West, you probably don't want to go to one of those companies anyways, they don't fly those cool RJ's. Don't do it, since the average age of the guys who left for those companies from Lakes was probably 27 or 28. Go to another "good" commuter and wait until the average of 33 or 34 to go to a major.......Let the people who don't know make their comments. Then you can laugh at them when the are still flying for a regional and your flying for a major.......Oh ya, don't worry about being furloughed this year. They will be so short of pilots by the time they open the Phoenix flying in June. I bet upgrade goes down to about 8 months.

 

[mamba20]

An RJ is a glorified turboprop? Dude, you have no clue what your talking about, worlds apart. Thats great your so stoked on lakes though. One question. Why are you still flying Brasilias and 1900's with 4800 hours? You dont sound like one of those guys when went to Air Tran, Southwest Am west. . . etc.

You may be totally right about going to a major right out of lakes (doubtful since most of the compaines you listed require time in aircraft that weigh more then 25,000 lbs and with Soutwest a type rating in a 737) but dont belittle the rest of us for taking that road. ASSHOLE!!!

 

[gt1900]

Mamba......People bash Lakes all the time (notice the 2 follow up posts) and its perfectly OK, but when someone defends them, and pokes a little fun at the whole mantality of the RJ guys (not all RJ guys by anymeans) that the RJ is so much better that flying a B-1900 or EMB-120 and you get your panties in a knot.....Dude, Grow up......Now the thing that really concerns me is your lack of knowledge. Of the majors that I posted find me one that requires time in an A/C of 25,000 lbs or bigger (notice I didn't say Jet Blue, which is actually 20,000 lbs. or NWA). Alaska doesn't, nore does Fedex, AirTran, Southwest, or America West. Furthermore, lets talk about your "doubtfulness" of people leaving Lakes for Majors. In the last 6 months Lakes has had 3 people hired by AirTran, 1 by Alaska (2 others are still in the pool waiting for a ground school date), 1 by Southwest (another waiting to hear how his interview went, 1 by Fedex (another to interview in the next week or 2), and who knows how many by America West (I bet close to 10). With a pilot group of only about 200 pilots that is 10% of the total Lakes pilots hired by a major in the last 6 months alone, and that's not counting the people who interviewed but didn't get hired. You would be hard pressed to find another commuter airline that has lost 10% of its pilots to majors in 6 months. And finally, your comment about me not being one of those guys who left....Well, I won't give you the satisfaction of knowing. Lets just say the fact that you try to assume something based off my profile makes you look like a complete ass. Lakes is what it is, it is probably the fastest way to get to a major airline in the industry. The pay sucks, the schedules suck, the company sucks, BUT, if you want to get to a major fast, you can't beat it. Keep flying your RJ, you probably get good schedules, good pay, and treated well, and I don't belittle you for that. But the simple fact is that you could very well be the FO of an ex Laker at your next job. So go ahead and bash Lakes now, but when your 1000 seniority numbers below one of those ex POS Lakes pilots, don't be pissed.......Trust me, the guys who have toughed it out at Lakes are laughing at the guys who look down on them!!! 4 years of seniority at a major will more than make up for 4 years of chitty treatment at lakes.

 

[Lost]

well put

 

[meatwallet]

Thanks for the feedback. BTW, Rex and Misty did my interview--very cool people.

 

[Rook]

First off,

congratulations on the class with Lakes. I also have heard of guys spending just a little time and going on to bigger and better things. I have to admit a lot of guys do have stars in their eyes about the CRJ. But in my opinion, Turbine PIC is Turbine PIC. If you're able to get on with a major or reputable national, then laugh at all of us still puddling on in our RJ's. Just have a good attitude while you're at your job. Pass your initial and your upgrade the first time, and move on when you can. Good luck to you.

Rook

 

[NickASA]

Are you guys hiring into the left seat at all?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

No, Upgrades are running a little over a year

 

[tattoo13]

Lost you are a retard

And I am going to kill you next week in a game of FB

 

[pilotyip]

Hey! as it has been said before "Jets are for kids", It takes a real pilot to figure out a turbo prop. The of biggest the secrets in the flying business, TJ's are easier than T-props and T-props are easier than recips.

 

[88_MALIBU]

After spending several weeks in training at a company who does pay the standard 75/month, I find it frustrating and sad that a new hire isnt being paid for training at Lakes. A railroad engineer is paid when he goes to training, so should you.

 

[Lost]

Tat,

your GAY. And you know **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** well your fb skills can't hang. hahaha! Prepare for another embarassment. I think I hear a rematch coming on.

 

[Lil Jon]

what are the hiring mins looking like right now at lakes?

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

You must be really desperate if you are considering going to Great Lakes. Good luck trying to live on $15 an hour (after not getting paid during training).

 

[pilotyip]

It is called paying your dues. If you need MEL turbine on your resume, followed MEL turbine PIC then Great Lakes is a place to get the hours you need to go to your next job. The money will follow experience as you move through the job market. We have hired a GL 1900 Capt in to the F/O seat on the DA-20, he got a $7K raise moving to the DA-20 F/O seat.

 

[AdSo81]

Im living fine with my 15.33 an hour...if you cant live off that as a single person with out kids...mabye you should kick your drug habit. All you have to do is live with in your means. If you cant, then Im truly sorry for you. HA HA

 

[gt1900]

Why do people always bash Lakes?...I don't understand??? I have sat in the CP's office of Alaska Airlines and he told all of us there that day to go to Lakes, I got the job from Lakes because of help from a pilot recruiter at AA, who told me that Lakes was the best place to go to further my carrier. All you guys who bash Lakes because they don't pay for training and the pay sucks are idiots (sorry, but its true). Ya, first year pay sucks, but second year will be over $27 an hr since you will now be a captain. That really isn't all that bad when you compare to other companies since you will still be sitting in the right seat. I know way too many people that were too good for Lakes, and left to go fly for a "good" commuter that are still sitting in the right seat of an RJ and won't see upgrade anytime soon (there was a small group of about 4 that went to AWAC, and then Frontier, that that was the exception to the rule). Hell, I even have friends that got hired at "good" commuters the same time I got hired at Lakes, I will be flying at a major before they even get to upgrade at their commuter. If you have a family, I can understand not going to Lakes, but if your single, your stupid if you don't. Ya, your life may be better at another commuter for the next 3 or 4 years, but going to another commuter will probably extend the time you can get on with a major by at least 3 years (most likely 4 to 5). Hell, three years could be up to 3000 pilots difference in seniority at a major. That's the difference between haveing a job and not having a job at UAL, AA, and Delta. I just don't get the bashing.....But hell, what do I know.

 

[propjockey]

I feel I must come to the defense of some of those of us who left Lakes before getting less than our precious 1000 PIC.

I did NOT leave Lakes because I had stars in my eyes about flying the RJ. I left because $27/hr just wasn't cutting it with a family. Now, entering my 2nd-year as an RJ FO at SkyWest, I make more than a 6th-year 1900 CAPTAIN at Lakes.

I was tired of commuting (because we couldn't afford to live in DEN anymore) to fly trips of 5 on, 1 off, and 4 on. I couldn't go home on that one day off, because with all the travel time I'd be home for a couple hours and have to go right back. Being gone sometimes 11 days in a row sucked bad.

When I made the jump, I didn't really want to go to a mid-tier carrier like Frontier, AirTran, ATA, or Cactus. They were the only ones hiring when I left. Now ATA as we knew it is gone. Yes, the remaining players may be "majors" based on revenue (probably needs to be adjusted for inflated dollars) but their future is no more certain than a lot of other carriers. JetBlue won't hire Lakers due to equipment minimums.

Yes, I miss being in the left seat, but one of the reasons I came to SkyWest was because of the good chance at a quick upgrade. I got in at the beginning of this wave of hiring that started at the end of 2003. If hiring continues as forecast for this year, I have a very realistic shot at upgrade in the RJ by my 2nd anniversary here, or shortly thereafter.

As in all things, it's a trade-off. Your mileage may vary. The timing was good for me, and I leapt at the opportunity. For those just getting on now, it's going to be an entirely different tapestry.

In the end, there is no right or wrong answer. You must do what you feel is right for YOU.

By the way, I don't mean to imply one bit that I regret going to Lakes. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life, and I'm glad to have gotten my start there. For me, it was just time to move on to greener pastures.

 

[T-prop]

I regret not going to Lakes. I was hired last April for a June class date. June came and went and Lakes furloughed. I couldn't afford to stay instructing because I was passing off a lot of new students because I was "leaving" soon. I put out my resume again, interviewed and was hired at Eagle and Skyway. Eagle was the only one to give me an actual class date. So, naturally, I took it. Lakes called me for a class in late Oct. before the ATR checkride and before 300 AA flowbacks started coming to Eagle. Although I am making almost as much as a first year CA at Lakes, I am currently looking at a 7 year upgrade, unless the 400+ flowbacks are recalled in a few years. I have a good friend that just upgraded there and another that just passed his newhire checkride.
I was drawn to Lakes because of their challenging flying, fast upgrades and the people that I met and know there are very cool people. Unfortunately, it wasn't meant to be. I still am tempted to leave Eagle for GLA but, I will be getting married soon and can't afford the paycut let alone the chance of getting furloughed shortly after getting hired. I recommend to any aspiring airline pilots to take a hard look at Lakes, simply because they will be able to walk into a major airline interview after a few years with exceptional piloting skills (no AP, FMS, GPS, mountainous terrain, high density altitudes etc.) I wish the best of luck to everyone at Lakes and anyone like myself who is just another pilot of thousands at an RJ airline planning on a long upgrade. The timing just wasn't right.

 

[canadflyau]

I think I see these same posts once a month bashing Lakes, then in support of Lakes right after someone posts about a Lakes class date...

There is a camaraderie that exists between Lakers past, present, and future. www.readytocopy.com is a perfect example of this. Lakes is what it is. 19/30 seat turboprops working for guaranteed revenue on government subsidized routes. That aircraft doesn't generate 1/4th of the ASM's or RASM's of the RJ's.. So don't even touch the pay comparison, however that doesn't change the need for a living wage and should be considered part of the cost of doing business when Lakes bids these cities, but pay raises nor quality of life increases are part of the factor when Lakes underbids every airline on the routes. So compared to the other 19 & 30 seat operators (thats who you should compare them with) they are still the worst. www.airlinepilotpay.com see Mesa 1900/DHC8, Skywest E120, Commutair 1900, Skyway 1900, and others. Lakes has a "carrot" program. First Carrot- get the job, Second Carrot-Training Contract or you'll get sued, Third Carrot- upgrade/pic time is around the corner, Fouth Carrot- Check Airman, Fifth Carrot- a second type in a >20000lb plane, Sixth carrot- whent the current C.P. can't do it anymore, you can be next! (God love ya Rex) So when you have finished the carrot dangling program you will be at 5-7yrs seniority... I would say most exit around carrot 4/5.

I do not regeret my time at Lakes, but I do regret the impact on my QOL and I just couldn't do it anymore. I would bust my rump, get Junior Manned down to 10 days off and then see flying get cancelled and be lucky to barely break guarantee. I had many months with >400hrs on the road, 10 days off, and not break guarantee.. (That breaks down for Capts $5-$6/hr plus perdiem $1/hr for your time spent at work, for FO's $3-$4/hr plus perdiem $1/hr.) While at home they provided my family with unaffordable heathcare, sick days that would be scrutinized to death if taken, and only 3 of those days each month that you could make plans. It is not a family friendly employer, and nothing is being done, or being allowed to be done (SELF HELP) by the NMB, to get some work rules. If you are single with incredible intestinal fortitude go and get all you can from GLA, otherwise just understand (and make your family understand) what you are realistically getting into.

Luckily you fly with great people to some great cities in the Rocks, and others on the plains. You will be very confident with your stick and rudder skills after your time at Lakes in all weather conditions with no autopilots, and no Flight Attendants will drive you straight to the Cargo world! lol!