Great job available for only $12,500

[Geronimo]

March 27, 2003
AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME (Citation III Part 135 Co-Pilot)
2634 Airport Drive, Las Vegas, NV 89032
Tel: no calls
Fax: (702) 646-6871
Email: EZ-Apply or Resume Jet feature not available for this job
Web Site: none
Citation III Part 135 Co-Pilot position available. Base Salary plus hourly flight pay and per diem. Candidate must pay for their training at Simuflite ($12,500 type rating) to be considered or have a current 8410 as an SIC in the C-650. Must be willing to be on the road with the aircraft when required. Aircraft is based in Las Vegas, Nevada. Candidate will be required to relocate to Las Vegas. Excellent opportunity to move up to Captain's position for right candidate. Please fax resume to 702-646-6871. Please reference C-650 Co-Pilot position. NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE!!! Whn applying, ref: climbto350.com

 

[WrightAvia]

heheheheh

You guys would glady enter a turd eating contest against a COPROPHASIC dog, for a chance at buying your 737 type to work at SWA.

So what's your point?

 

[Geronimo]

My point is that it is a completely absurd requiring an employee to pay for his own training. This is the typical PFT debate. It is a complete disgrace to this profession.

But I am sure this company will have no problem at all filling this position. Boys, just get out the old checkbook, there is a job opening.

And no, I would never pay for a 737 type just so I could interview with Southwest. I would rather work for a company that has a little more respect for me as a long term employee. This is just me personally. To each is own.

 

[WrightAvia]

Maybe the job pays enough...

for the pilot to recoup his money. Hard to say. I had a friend that was working at a company flying right seat in their MU-2 and Citation. Time came for the company to send him to school for the CITATION. He went. Well, they must have got wind that he was out looking for airline work, so they tried to get him to sign a TRAINING CONTRACT. He wouldn't and and told em to go p.i.s.s. off. Then he got his job offer over at MIDWEST EXPRESS. He takes that job and really ticks off his corporate employer with the fact that they had JUST sent him to TYPE training, costing them big bucks. Long story short...Midwest Express furloughed him again for the second time, and the old part 91 corporate operation is doing well without him. They won't take him back.

Here's the problem...the market is flooded with guys that got types from their corporate employers and left that employment with a FREE type in their pocket to go to the big airline hiring show that was going down over the last few years and now they want their old jobs back cause they are furloughed. Someone that had that job before this ad was posted, gave the employer the short end of the stick...so now the employer want a commitment.

Like it or not...the market will bear out that someone will fill that job.

 

[Geronimo]

I have no problem with companies that make large investments in their employees trying to ensure that they get a return on their money. You cited good example of the need for companies to require training contracts. Now, some are a little outrageous, i.e. USA Jet.

Bottom line is, you should not have to pay for a job. In my opinion, any repectable company would not require this of a future employee.

 

[bobbysamd]

Is it really P-F-T? Sort of, but not really

This one falls between the cracks of the standard two-prong P-F-T test, which is (1) paying money to an employer as a condition of employment and (2) the paid-for training being company-specific with no application elsewhere. I.e., no type rating received that belongs to you.

What difference does it make where you get the type? What if I got it from Mike Pappas and had umpteen hours in type? Maybe this company's insurance requires SimuFlite training. I didn't see any time-in-type requirements, either. Making me wonder, then, would I, with my CE-500 type, be eligible if I were current? I feel that I could make that argument logically, but who says anyone pays attention to logic. Moreover, apparently the place will consider a current CE-650 SIC. Nothing said about this person needing a type. Make no sense to me.

This deal would seem to fail the test of P-F-T. Simuflite and not the company is making money off the applicant. The applicant gets a nice type rating for his/her certificate. Just the same, type ratings without time in type don't mean much. I could see some WIA people going after the type and thence this job. It is not clear-cut, black-letter P-F-T, but I wouldn't do it.

 

[Mrs_Boeing]

Bottom line is, you should not have to pay for a job. In my opinion, any repectable company would not require this of a future employee.

The sad reality is that as long as pilots will pay, companies will gladly let them. There'll be a hundred pilots lining up with the old checkbook for this job, just as they used to at Comair, ASA, COEX, and others. It ain't personal, it's just economics. And concerning the pilots who do a type with their 135 or 91 operator and then immediately scrammed for the airlines when the boom was on, they've caused us even more grief. Many employers will no longer take a pilot at their word because this practice was RAMPANT during the late 1990s. Now many are furloughed and outrageous contracts and PFT is the norm, and we are screaming about it. I dont really blame the companies. They have to make a living too and they've been shafted so many times by newbie Citation pilots they are going to protect themselves in these lean times. My company went thru it too. We went thru FOs like a Ginsu knife thru hot butter. They'd promise to hang around and bust their @ss for an upgrade, but as soon as they got back from Simuflite it was off to Midway. Last year they came crawling back with their tail between their legs. No dice. We live and die by our word. If that's no good how can we be trusted. Many of us have the integrity of a small-town used car salesman, yet we rail with indignation at operators who are only trying to protect their investment.

Moms

 

[WrightAvia]

Is a type for a Citation really 12,500?

wow, that seems high.

Here's another thing to consider Geronimo. With the advent of social programs like the Worker Investment Act...laid off pilots could take advantage of the unlimited FREE MONEY supplied by TAX PAYERS, to get more or less a free type rating. The downside to this, is that employers are going to be able to find that one guy that is able to collect WIA money to in effect...get "the people" to pay their training costs. Or they will just find someone that is current on 135 Paperwork as a SIC Citation pilot. Either way, they win an employee that is already trained, whether YOU yourself pay for the rating, the tax payer or your previous employer.

Years ago, the Human Resources guy at Scott Aircharter was trying to convince me during a job interview, to take a 1/3 pay cut to change jobs to come and work for them. He told me that Midwest Express took 3 of their Citation Captains all in one week. Darn near wiped them out. I bet they came up with a plan to make sure they didn't lose that many guys at one time, in the future.

 

[skylane58]

Sounds like Vision Air. Told all of you they were bad news. Anyway, a type in the III is probably every bit of $12500, at least at simuflight or flight safty. I was curious about a b1900 type at one point and did some research. It was almost 13 large at FSI. They aint cheap. Good news is, if you already had the type and was current you dont have to pay the "training fee," acording to the ad anyway.