Great Colgan Rumor

[wmuflyguy]

I don't know abuot your airline, but we had to learn the captains checks and about the maintenance logs (FO's start the engines 95% of the time also). You are a quailified crewmember and it is your job to get the airplane out on time. You are correct that you are there to back up the captain, but in the absence of the captain your next on the food chain. I give the captain the respect he deserves, he is in charge, I back up the captain, I do my job and any job he gives me to do, but in his absence I'm not afriad to use good judgement in his absence and make sure we are ready to go when he gets there.

I'm talking about the situation where they are scrambling a reserve at the last minute or the captain is coming in off an inbound flight and is running a bit behind. This isn't an ulta common occurence. It is jsut making life easier on the captain. So he can get on board look at the weather, review the maintenance logs, do his checks/rituals and we can go.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I believe boarding the aircraft and getting the flight going is strictly the captains authority. Captains still need to review the aircraft maintenance logs and records prior to departure, then their are the captains preflight checks which aren't included in the FO flows. I'm an FO and I just think my role is more or less to back up the captain and not so much to help get the plane out on time. Lets just say that there is a maintenance item or logbook discrepency that renders the aircraft unairworthy, it would be more inconvenient to deplane the aircraft and remove all the luggage then to just wait and take a delay. FO's have enough to do prepare all of the weight and balance, weather, cleareance boarding and starting an engine should be the least of an FO's concerns. Moreorless concentrate on your job and your role in a flight crew.

So if the captain is running late you would just do "your job"? I mean if it's not in your flow then you don't have to worry about it right? Most captains i have flown with would rather have the FO "pick em up" by doing some of their flows and log checks (even start boarding if everything checks out) then to show up late, do the checks, block out late and have Tom calling. By the way when you go to upgrade they expect you to know all the captains flows, log discrepencys and such. They don't spoon feed it to you. Might as well learn it now and be able to help your captain if the need arise. That mentality of "this is your side of the airplane is yours, this is mine" destroys the crew concept.

 

[Joe Schmo]

OK open question to any Captain out there..

How many Captains out there would get on an aircraft, with one engine running, close the door start the other engine and assume the position of PIC? Would you as a captain take the word of the FO that everythings good?


In the absence of the captain you, as an FO, are next in the food chain, the context of that is while the aircraft is being operated the captain becomes incapacitated. Thats the time to step up.

 

[HughBeamont]

OK open question to any Captain out there...
How many Captains out there would get on an aircraft, with one engine running, close the door start the other engine and assume the position of PIC? Would you as a captain take the word of the FO that everythings good?

It's one thing for the FO to begin boarding without me - that's fine - I might be grunting with my pants around my ankles in the bathroom. But to start an engine without me? Forget it. You need to run a before start checklist, and that requires two people. And if anything goes wrong (hot start, ramper into prop, etc), the captain WILL get blamed. No question about it.

80% of the risk in our jobs is on the ground. You need two people with undivided attention to keep things safe. In flight it's different: run the cruise checklist, delegate everything to the FO, and go to sleep.

 

[ERfly]

That mentality of "this is your side of the airplane is yours, this is mine" destroys the crew concept.

Too bad that's the CRM course at Colgan. I can't tell you how many times I got bitched out because I touched the temperature controller for the cabin, when I saw it was too cold. Not a very friendly crew environment there. The captain let you know he/she was in charge.

 

[Prop2Jet]

I have never had that issue at Colgan ER, maybe it was who you flew with. I have flown with about 10 Captains and all were awesome to fly with. I learned a lot, yet with some you should play your complete role as an FO. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

 

[wmuflyguy]

It's one thing for the FO to begin boarding without me - that's fine - I might be grunting with my pants around my ankles in the bathroom. But to start an engine without me? Forget it. You need to run a before start checklist, and that requires two people. And if anything goes wrong (hot start, ramper into prop, etc), the captain WILL get blamed. No question about it.

80% of the risk in our jobs is on the ground. You need two people with undivided attention to keep things safe. In flight it's different: run the cruise checklist, delegate everything to the FO, and go to sleep.

Agreed.

 

[FlyingSig]

Colgan doesnt authorize FO's to start engines and there should be two pilots on board.

I don't think most Delta MD88 Capt's even know how to start our engines...

 

[Capn Lucky]

If the FO started the engine, who was standing at the bottom of the stairs? I guess he sat in the left seat to start, assuming it was a Beech. Did they Hire MP's little brother?

 

[uberbored]

........

 

[pipejockey]

This FO should just quit and go somewhere else, thus allowing him to keep the extra pay. I mean it's not like he would have any reason for feeling guilty. The CA pay over there is what FO's should be earning anyway and CA pay about 40% higher than that. There is no way Colgan could get this pay via the courts. They were stupid enough to make the mistake, they should live with it! Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the regionals have been stealing from the pilots since their inception!

 

[BRA]

This FO should just quit and go somewhere else, thus allowing him to keep the extra pay. I mean it's not like he would have any reason for feeling guilty. The CA pay over there is what FO's should be earning anyway and CA pay about 40% higher than that. There is no way Colgan could get this pay via the courts. They were stupid enough to make the mistake, they should live with it! Hell, as far as I'm concerned, the regionals have been stealing from the pilots since their inception!

That's an interesting thought. With all the people that have left for the "real" big equipment, I think many have taken a pay cut to do it. (based on first year FO pay only) May be not all the ones that went to airtran, or the one that went to SWA. Your thoughts are still true though, the captain pay is what a regional FO should make in my opinion. The rates at all the regionals should only go up, who would have guessed they would be going down???

 

[Prop2Jet]

Ain't that the truth of the matter.

 

[ihateyourego]

I wish I saw old Mary's face when they figured that one out. Oh man that would be fun. All the pickin apart those stupid pay sheets, scamming everyone out of the rounded down pennies, and they're pissing thousands away cuz some family member in the payroll department thought the 19 year old kid was a street captain. Gosh thats good. Its only topped by the F/O quietly cashing the check every two weeks for 7 months. With the rigorous interview screening its hard to believe someone so dishonest slipped throught the cracks. HAH. Man this cracks me up.

 

[UnableDirect]

BUMP... this was the best question on the thread and still no answer!

Wow, its seems like a lot of Captains think FO's are not usefull. For those guys, did you get hired out of your embry riddle seat in classroom into the left seat of the Saab or did you work your way up to being an asshole from the right seat?

 

[suupah]

I believe boarding the aircraft and getting the flight going is strictly the captains authority. Captains still need to review the aircraft maintenance logs and records prior to departure, then their are the captains preflight checks which aren't included in the FO flows. I'm an FO and I just think my role is more or less to back up the captain and not so much to help get the plane out on time. Lets just say that there is a maintenance item or logbook discrepency that renders the aircraft unairworthy, it would be more inconvenient to deplane the aircraft and remove all the luggage then to just wait and take a delay. FO's have enough to do prepare all of the weight and balance, weather, cleareance boarding and starting an engine should be the least of an FO's concerns. Moreorless concentrate on your job and your role in a flight crew.

dude, there are alot of right seat captains here. I wonder if it is like that in other places.

 

[Diesel]

Frac guy here-

Don't know why I started reading the thread but ugh i got sucked in....

If the FO does both the captains and the FO's part of the before start and engine start checklist does it really matter if he hits the start switch? I guess it's up to your sop's and all.

In our planes both our pilots are typed and swap seats. So we don't really have that problem.