Grandstanding @sshole Mainline Pilots

[79%N1]

The reason scope needs to be a big deal is not the guys currently flying at regionals - but the mainline pilots who will be moving to regionals if management gets its way. I am sure management looks forward to the day when the only flights that are flown by mainline end on a different continent than the one they started on: all domestic flying outsourced.

From my perspective, scope needs to be more than just seat count. It also needs to be distance. ORD-MIA? IAH-YYZ? These don't seem like regional routes to me!

It is a "Regional route" if only 30-40 people are booked on it at the day/time that the flight is run. Should they put a 757 on it just because some mainline pilots think it is their God given right to fly people from ORD-MIA? That thinking makes no sense to me at all! Lets fly empty planes around! That is great for your company's bottom line!

 

[Whydoitry]

With the notable exception of Eagle, who the f*ck signs a 10+ year contract? Come back to me with a realistic example if you want to play 'what if'...

Ok 7yrs, my only point with the 10years is that I fear the company is going to ask for extraordinary things, such as the Eagle duration, in exchange for the outsourcing. I'm not arguing against the enhancement of scope, just that it is going to cost the pilot group to get it back.

If UAL saves $200 million/year by having Skywest and Republic fly 70 seat aircraft then its reasonable to assume that to recapture that flying will cost the pilot contract somewhere near $200 million. (numbers are purely hypothetical only management really knows)

For management a contract has a bottom line and that is all that matters to them. Scope is a major economic issue and when more than 55% of the flying is outsourced it's going to have a huge number associated with it. They don't care about career progression or any pilot's career.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Ok 7yrs, my only point with the 10years is that I fear the company is going to ask for extraordinary things, such as the Eagle duration, in exchange for the outsourcing. I'm not arguing against the enhancement of scope, just that it is going to cost the pilot group to get it back.

If UAL saves $200 million/year by having Skywest and Republic fly 70 seat aircraft then its reasonable to assume that to recapture that flying will cost the pilot contract somewhere near $200 million. (numbers are purely hypothetical only management really knows)

For management a contract has a bottom line and that is all that matters to them. Scope is a major economic issue and when more than 55% of the flying is outsourced it's going to have a huge number associated with it. They don't care about career progression or any pilot's career.

I agree to an extent, but some cost items keep going missed. The cost savings is minimal, if any at all, the whipsaw is what is important to management. There are many other things to factor here:

1. A lot of regionals are paying at the higher end of the payscale due to minimal movement as of late. Newhires at mainline may actually be cheaper.

2. There is no need for a regional CEO and full management team at mainline. Huge cost savings there.

3. No need for a corporate structure, IE, rents, hangers, attorneys, accounting departments, HR departments, etc...

4. No corporate profit for the regional, it is kept at mainline. Compnies like Skywest and Republic are not buying airlines with found money. These monies are corporate profits that are doing this. Huge savings there.

If anyone thinks that the above costs are not being looked at by management in the current negotiations, you have a real awakening coming. These planes can be flown at mainline, economically and rightfully so.

Yogi

 

[Whydoitry]

If the whipsaw is the primary motivator for outsourcing then that too has a number associated with it and mgt would expect to see cost savings in a new contract to counter their expected future cost savings from whipsawing.

I agree with all your points about keeping the money at the mainline, that was always the logic that dictated that CAL should have bought XJT back and integrated all the RJs. They could have had any size jet flown at XJT as a subsidiary with CAL pilots doing the flying, but they chose not to do that. So, with CAL brains running UAL, I am very skeptical that the outcome of this issue will really favor the new UAL pilots, or if it does the price will be astronomical.

 

[Dan Roman]

With the notable exception of Eagle, who the f*ck signs a 10+ year contract? Come back to me with a realistic example if you want to play 'what if'...

SWA did

 

[Scope out RJ's]

There is one problem problem with your statement. Southwest is not PFT. Advice; Stop talking out of your ass....you won't sound like an idiot.

Advice:
Quit sticking your face near my ass, and I'll stop talking out of it. I'm not a swa pilot, so I don't go that way!
And yes sport, swa is pft!

 

[chppr5]

It is a "Regional route" if only 30-40 people are booked on it at the day/time that the flight is run. Should they put a 757 on it just because some mainline pilots think it is their God given right to fly people from ORD-MIA? That thinking makes no sense to me at all! Lets fly empty planes around! That is great for your company's bottom line!

When the name of your airline is on the side of your airplane and the ticket was sold by your airline then it will be your "God given right" to fly that route! As for the future, instead of flying that 57 to MIA, WE will fly the RJ!

 

[Widow's Son]

>>SWA did<<

You are kind of right and don't even know why. The ten year contract was bound on the company for ten years, but the pilots were only bound for five. Four years into it, Herb offered up some goodies in a "bribe" to get us to commit to the second five early. Extending that contract carried us through the 9/11 storm period without an amendable contract to worry about when everyone else was going backwards.

 

[Captain X]

My point was that I feel that the path of least resistance for the new United MEC to capture the regional feed will be to create a new "B" scale for anyone coming onto the property.

It is probably coming, for better or worse.

Well said.

This, unforunately, is one obstacle we will face with the issue. Guys have to ask themselves exactly how far they are willing to go to recapture "regional" aircraft flying.

Is it recapture at all costs or is it recapture only on certain terms?

 

[waka]

Advice:
Quit sticking your face near my ass, and I'll stop talking out of it. I'm not a swa pilot, so I don't go that way!
And yes sport, swa is pft!

PFT = Pay For Training. SWA doesn't get ANY money from their pilot candidates for training. They only require that you have a type rating......whether you get that by paying ANOTHER company for the type rating yourself, or if you happen to have a 737 type. By definition, that is NOT pay for training.

How about you review some basic logic and a little of that English language?

Either that, or you stay in your little happy ignorant world....making up $hit.