GPS question

[Ill Mitch]

Had this brought to me by one of our pilots. He was on a checkride and were getting ready to set up for an approach into an airport. The routing for the practice approach was "Cleared to XYZ VOR, etc..."
So, he punched the approach into the GPS, and then started tracking towards the VOR using the GPS. The GPS said "XYZi" indicating this was also the initial approach fix for the approach. The checkairman said he couldn't do this.
Is there any reason why? Was it because of the little "i" after the fix as opposed to it just reading "XYZ"? Are there any reference to this in the regs?
Our airplanes are certified with an IFR GPS in it.
Thanks...

 

[HMR]

MItch- I don't think you've given us enough info. From what you've shared I can't see why the little "i" would cause a problem. Were they already inside the IAF? Does the VOR also serve as the MAP?

Could it be another case of a crusty old examiner not understanding GPS?

 

[fr8guy]

It sounds like he wanted the "VOR" approach, done by VOR not GPS overlay.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Post a link to the approach as well. If you can't do that, tell us which one it is.

 

[Metro752]

Maybe the GPS isn't IFR certified. I'm just throwing it out there...

 

[EatSleepFly]

Sounds to me like the examiner wanted a straight VOR approach, as opposed to an overlay, like someone mentioned above.

Maybe the GPS isn't IFR certified. I'm just throwing it out there...

"Our airplanes are certified with an IFR GPS in it."

 

[HMR]

Are there any reference to this in the regs?

Where'd you go Mitch? We're all waiting to solve this problem.

AIM 1-1-20 pretty much covers everything you could want to know. IMO, it's required reading if you're teaching GPS.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I am here...just getting more info on it.

It was an ILS approach and the VOR is the Initial Approach Fix.
The pilot had the ILS in the number one nav and he doesn't remember what he had tuned in the number two nav, but he thinks it was the VOR freq.

Thanks for the AIM reference. FYI: I am not teaching or a check airman, just acting as a go between to keep things smooth.



Thanks guys.

 

[HMR]

It was an ILS approach and the VOR is the Initial Approach Fix.

The examiner was right. Can't load a precision approach into the GPS. It's not in the database. He must've loaded some other approach to get the "i". You can use the GPS to identify the VOR or get DME info but you wouldn't want the "i" in there.

 

[DrewBlows]

The examiner was right. Can't load a precision approach into the GPS. It's not in the database. He must've loaded some other approach to get the "i". You can use the GPS to identify the VOR or get DME info but you wouldn't want the "i" in there.

ILS approaches are in the Garmin 430. When you load it it gives you a disclaimer that it's for reference only. It won't give you vertical guidance and I don't think it will activate (never tried).

 

[HMR]

Thanks Drew. I used to teach classes on the 430 and 530 when each first came on the market. It's been awhile. I'm surprised the lawyers would let them include ILS's in the database even w/the disclaimer.

 

[mike1mc]

ILS approaches are in the Garmin 430. When you load it it gives you a disclaimer that it's for reference only. It won't give you vertical guidance and I don't think it will activate (never tried).

The Garmins do have all the approaches in the database (ILS included), but it is more for reference than navigation. It simply loads all of the fixes for an ILS in the box. The disclaimer says you can't use the GPS for vertical navigation. I think we'd need more info, but maybe he loaded a different approach in the box and was using that to navigate towards the VOR. I can't see any reason why usiing the GPS to navigate towards a VOR would be troublesome on a checkride unless it was part of an approach that he shouldn't have been using. Not sure what kind of checkride yur friend was taking, but could it have something to do with Company Policy or Operations Specifications (if it was for an air carrier)?

 

[ultrarunner]

Thanks Drew. I used to teach classes on the 430 and 530 when each first came on the market. It's been awhile. I'm surprised the lawyers would let them include ILS's in the database even w/the disclaimer.

They are in FMS's. Why not GPS's boxes. LRN is LRN.

 

[bender]

Was the examiner talking about which mode(gps/vloc) the GPS had to be in?

 

[flyinlow67]

Geez, guys. My Garmin 195 handheld has ILS approaches in it! The localizer (runway centerline) is all that shows up, but the fixes are in there.

As to the approach, I would guess the examiner was wanting to see the VOR tuned and ID'd because it was the IAF. You said he thought he had it in the secondary, but if he tuned and ID'd, I'm sure he would remember doing it. Using the GPS is the way most of us do it, but it is always a good idea to have a back up, just in case.