Got the Spin endorsement today

[pilotman2105]

I did spins as part of my PPL training. My instructor made a point of demonstrating them and showing me how to get out of them. Then I did the maneuver. It is something that perhaps does not need to be displayed on a checkride for the PPL, but at least should be demonstrated by the instructor. This way, pilots learn what spins are, how to avoid them, and how to recover. The fear of a spin is avoided. It also teaches the importance of coordination, which is often a difficult to impress upon students..

While I understand the argument for not teaching spins, so long as the instructor is well qualified and confident of spins, they can be a very safe and fun maneuver. Plus, the knowledge gained from them can be very beneficial and eye-opening.

 

[Cat Driver]

As the aircraft become more docile and easier to fly the new generation of instructors may of course not have the advantage of flying the older generation of aircraft.

The real problem arises when one of the students gets their license and buys lets say a simple straight foward Cessna 140.

Then the student heads back to the instructor for training on their new airplane and finds out that the instructor can't fly it.

But that is just the way it is.

 

[tdwnds1]

Spin Training

As a CFI, CFII and MEI, I have to put my 2 cents in on this one.

Personally, I think spin training should be taught to each and every pilot during the private pilot portion of their training.

The FAA does not require such training for PPL because it is felt that most spins occur too low to the ground (Base to Final cross-controlled) to be recoverable. However, anyone who has done a power-on stall incorrectly would think differently.

I was fortunate enough to have my PPL flight instructor demonstrate "Non-coordinated stalls" with me back in the 80's. Frankly, it saved my neck one day when I went up on a solo in a 172 and spun the dammend thing on the very first stall practice!

Even though the new generation of planes are less prone to spinning, I still think it should be taught if ever allowed by the FAA.

Spins can be safely taught as long as the instructor uses his/her good common sense regarding type of aircraft, altitude and conditions. Besides, if you have ever been in a 152 aerobat, multiple spins are a blast!

 

[CrewDawg]

I was doing spins the other day for my commercial course, and learned that you have to try very hard to keep a C-152 in a spin. We tried to keep in through 5 turns, but for some reason it would always fly itself out of the spin. They are fun but i'd like to try it some other aircraft.

 

[Pull & Rotate]

Spin Training

Every private pilot should do spin training. The Canadians have it right. I have found that student pilots in the US are very nervous about stalls because they are afraid to get into a spin. If they had spin training, they would know it was no big deal and would stop worrying about stalls.

 

[TDTURBO]

For that matter, someone explain to me why someone who graduates from their private license exam and moves onto instrument is required by part 141 to do stall after stall under the hood, both full and partial panel.

Enough stalls already, I get it! Low airspeed = bad. How many times do I need to teach this?

And besides, have you ever tried to teach that "borderline" IFR student to do a partial panel power on stall? Believe me when I say that spin training is there for a reason.

Partial panel stalls has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas for a regular course I can think of.


-Sorry, had to vent.

Since when do you have to teach partial panel power on or off stalls? I never heard of such a thing, I know it's not in the PTS either.

 

[labbats]

It's in the Jeppesen (sp?) part 141 syllabus. It's all over Stage One. Almost every flight for the first 12 flights they want you to do stalls with the hood. Which I already did several times in the private pilot syllabus of theirs. How that helps a private student is beyond me.

As soon as you introduce partial panel in the instrument course, they want to see partial panel stalls, and lots of them.

 

[TDTURBO]

I guess a 141 syllabus can be anything a manufacturer wants it to be. I am sure Cessna’s different and so is PIC's course. I do know that it isn't a required demonstratable skill in the PTS, so why do it? Or a better question, why use Jepp, who are they anyway? They make recycled charts. Big deal.

 

[labbats]

Good point.

My school teaches with the Jepp guide for 141. I discuss why I won't do partial panel stalls ad naseum and move on anymore. But when I first started, it was just rote teaching from the syllabus, which just doesn't make sense sometimes.

 

[Jmmccutc]

crewdawg and i were doing spin as part of our training for private certificates many moons ago...i think i helps to show you what to do if you get into that situation...however, like 350driver pointed out earlier, we should all teach the students to avoid that stuation in the first place, there is no substite for good stall and spin awareness...the fun factor of spins is definately up there, you can have a blast trying to make your CFI sick...

 

[wickedpilot]

If someone can tell me how to post a video clip (???), I'll be glad to show everyone my first spin experience the weekend after I earned my private.

It was a great experience and Yes, we got it on video.

 

[ATLplt]

I don't see what the big deal is. I went up a few weeks ago for my CFI training and performed several spins. We were in a Cessna 172 and had to do everything in our power to keep that thing spinning. Usually people mistake a spin for a spiral and unless the airspeed is holding steady you're probably in a spiral.

I felt the training was valuable and fun none the less. In a Cessna with proper loading you'lll fly out of a spin if you just let go. The experience seemed safe to me...

 

[Tug Driver]

Our local DE does spin training in a citabria. Prior to my students checkrides, I have them do some spin training with the DE. That way, they get to meet him and are not so nervous on check ride day, and they get a better grasp on the stall/spin situations...

 

[flyifrvfr]

If we teach only to recognize a stall and recover before a stall than we deprive our students the proper education of aerodynamics. We full stall an airplane for a reason, to demonstate the techniques of recognizing the failure to recognize a imminate stall. The by product of this is the possibility of flying the aircraft in an uncoordinated manner and spinning.

If we teach a student to always fly coordinated than a spin will never result from a stall. The key isn't to not teach full stalls but to teach coordinated flight at all times. Remember that an aircraft must be stalled in an uncoordinated manner to spin, remove one of those ingredients and you can not spin. I would never leave full stalls out of the students syllabus. Just teach the importance of flying coordinated

 

[bobbysamd]

Spin anecdotes

I was on a primary training flight in a 172 early in my Riddle career. My student was flying and we had an observer in the back. We were doing MCAS with full flaps. The horn was going, my student pulled back a little more and released a little rudder pressure, and guess what? You probably can guess . . . The right wing comes up, the nose goes over and we get into a spin. The ground is coming up, but I got the power off, raised the flaps and we recovered. This happened a little more than fifteen years ago and I remember it as clearly as yesterday.

MAPD uses A36 Bonanzas for primary training. Failure to maintain uncoordinated flight during stalls, especially during power-on stalls, will lead to unpleasant surprises. The 141 Private syllabus included stall practice in the A36 at night. While I'm as a big a fan of stall/spin awareness as anyone and feel that spins should be taught to all pilots, night stalls with primary students in Bonanzas did not particularly thrill me. Ironically, Mesa students were not given spin training anytime in their training, at least when I was there eleven years ago.

Finally, another thrilling (?) airplane to stall were the Mooney M20Js (MO20) that we used for CFI and Commercial single students at FSI. Mooneys have a critical, slick wing, well-suited for cruising flight, so failure to maintain coordinated flight during a stall will cause a wing to snap over before you have any idea what has happened. FSI gave me exactly one flight in a Mooney before it turned me loose with students.

Be prepared for a different stall experience if you fly either airplane, especially if most of your experience is in Cessna or Piper, especially Hershey Pipers.