Got the Spin endorsement today

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

When we were climbing out to do the spins my heart rate was around 200bpm; and I could just hear that sound, you know at a theme park when your on a roller coaster the "click-click-click" on your way up. CFI demonstrated one and my heart rate was going wild, then after he recovered I said, "That's it"? He's like yup, we did about 6-7 more like Cross controlled, Power on, Power off, Turning, Etc. It was a blast, and I never felt sick; the way I thought I would.

After doing all this I think that having a CFI at least demo a spin to a private student should be in the PTS. Mainly because in all honesty before today I was timid to practice stalling much solo, thinking what If I get uncoordinated resulting in a spin? I’d never been in a spin so I wouldn’t have the procedure down to recover. But now I know how to recover, I know what it feels like; I know why they occur (aerodynamics), so due to all this I'm a more confident and safe pilot. Does anyone else agree?

Fly safe,
TA

 

[Alchemy]

What type of A/C did you spin? I did mine in a 172. Kind of disappointing doing them in cessna. I was going to do some more in a decathlon but I can't find a 160 lb instructor. I found a 200 lb CFI but we could only carry .75 gallons fuel with me and him on board. 430 pound useful loads are a killer.

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

Many a CFI and student have been lost during spin training. A new CFI with a new primary student doing spins?

I will admit that they are fun and give a great deal of insight into just how bad a botched stall can get. How much longer until you're ready for your CFI ride?

 

[Cat Driver]

Spin training should be part of every PPL training.

To say that a flying instructor is to inept to teach spins means they should have never been certified to start with.

It never ceases to amaze me the lack of flying skills being taught in todays schools.

Truly amazing.

 

[Timebuilder]

Wasn't it the loss of people and planes during primary training that was the reason they eliminated the spin requirement for PPL forty years ago?

 

[Cat Driver]

I think there were a few in the Grumman Yankee caused by improper loading resulting in a flat spin, seems I recall it had to do with the fuel in the spar tank or something like that.

However spins in most certified single engine trainers pose no real risk in training.

In Canada we have been using spin training ever since I can remember.

Basically spins are a non event in most small aircraft certified for spins and should be taught as part of the PPL.

 

[Timebuilder]

I can see the value in spins, but I thought the accidents are what drove the move to eliminate them from the PPL.

 

[350DRIVER]

Spin training should be part of every PPL training.

Cat Driver, I could not disagree with you more. Absolutely in no way, shape, or form should a private pilot be doing spin training since if proper stall awareness/recovery is taught then that is more than enough. The airplane MUST first be stalled before you can enter a spin so as long as the student pilot is taught how to avoid, recover, get out of a stall then all is well. No reason for a newly minted instructor to take a newly aquired student up and get them into a spin for no good reason(s). The FAA will never change this requirement since there is absolutely no need to do such.


Don't get into a stall and you will not get into a spin, easy as that. Know the proper stall recovery procedures and you will not the aircraft into a spin.


3 5 0

 

[labbats]

For that matter, someone explain to me why someone who graduates from their private license exam and moves onto instrument is required by part 141 to do stall after stall under the hood, both full and partial panel.

Enough stalls already, I get it! Low airspeed = bad. How many times do I need to teach this?

And besides, have you ever tried to teach that "borderline" IFR student to do a partial panel power on stall? Believe me when I say that spin training is there for a reason.

Partial panel stalls has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas for a regular course I can think of.


-Sorry, had to vent.

 

[Cat Driver]

Well America West that is what is so wonderful about our two countries, we are free to do and believe anything we wish ( as long as it is not illegal )

You have every right to your position, however how about all the pilots who failed to recognize the approach of the stall and spun in?

I would not allow my dog to fly with any pilot who was not trained in spin recovery.

That is of course only my opinion.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Many a CFI and student have been lost during spin training. A new CFI with a new primary student doing spins?
How much longer until you're ready for your CFI ride?

I really see no danger if the proper technique is used; weight & balance are in the correct range etc.

Probably a little over a week on the ride.

 

[chuychanga]

I believe they looked at the stats and realized more people were dying while practicing spins, than were dying during accidental spins.

I don't doubt that everyone is a better pilot for having learn spins and spin recovery, but I think if you start teaching it to student pilots they could lose respect for the the stall. No one should fear a stall, but a certain amount of respect is crucial for safe flying.

That said, I think spin avoidance is more important than spin recovery.

 

[Cat Driver]

Yes I guess teaching spin avoidance but not how to recover is like a driving school teaching people how to avoid getting into a skid on snow covered roads...but don't teach em how to get out of it.

Same thing as far as I can see.

 

[chuychanga]

No. The difference is that even the most proficient and careful driver could find themselves in a skid on icy roads. Getting into that predicament is not necessarily an indication of poor driving skills. It happens to even the best drivers, therefore we must teach skid recovery to every driver. On the other hand, anyone who accidentally gets into a spin is someone who does not know much about stall recognition and recovery. It is an excellent example of poor piloting skills. Good pilots do not just accidentally spin a plane.

Anyway, you can't argue with the fact that less people are getting killed in spins today.

 

[Cat Driver]

Less people are getting killed in spins today because the airplanes that low time pilots fly are generally less prone to spins than they were some short decades ago.

The general level of skills in the instructor field has gone down, this discussion is another sign of this.


Several decades ago spin recovery training was normal and every private student was taught spin recovery, it ain't rocket science.

Altough some instructors seem to think it is.

 

[pilotman2105]

I did spins as part of my PPL training. My instructor made a point of demonstrating them and showing me how to get out of them. Then I did the maneuver. It is something that perhaps does not need to be displayed on a checkride for the PPL, but at least should be demonstrated by the instructor. This way, pilots learn what spins are, how to avoid them, and how to recover. The fear of a spin is avoided. It also teaches the importance of coordination, which is often a difficult to impress upon students..

While I understand the argument for not teaching spins, so long as the instructor is well qualified and confident of spins, they can be a very safe and fun maneuver. Plus, the knowledge gained from them can be very beneficial and eye-opening.

 

[Cat Driver]

As the aircraft become more docile and easier to fly the new generation of instructors may of course not have the advantage of flying the older generation of aircraft.

The real problem arises when one of the students gets their license and buys lets say a simple straight foward Cessna 140.

Then the student heads back to the instructor for training on their new airplane and finds out that the instructor can't fly it.

But that is just the way it is.

 

[tdwnds1]

Spin Training

As a CFI, CFII and MEI, I have to put my 2 cents in on this one.

Personally, I think spin training should be taught to each and every pilot during the private pilot portion of their training.

The FAA does not require such training for PPL because it is felt that most spins occur too low to the ground (Base to Final cross-controlled) to be recoverable. However, anyone who has done a power-on stall incorrectly would think differently.

I was fortunate enough to have my PPL flight instructor demonstrate "Non-coordinated stalls" with me back in the 80's. Frankly, it saved my neck one day when I went up on a solo in a 172 and spun the dammend thing on the very first stall practice!

Even though the new generation of planes are less prone to spinning, I still think it should be taught if ever allowed by the FAA.

Spins can be safely taught as long as the instructor uses his/her good common sense regarding type of aircraft, altitude and conditions. Besides, if you have ever been in a 152 aerobat, multiple spins are a blast!

 

[CrewDawg]

I was doing spins the other day for my commercial course, and learned that you have to try very hard to keep a C-152 in a spin. We tried to keep in through 5 turns, but for some reason it would always fly itself out of the spin. They are fun but i'd like to try it some other aircraft.

 

[Pull & Rotate]

Spin Training

Every private pilot should do spin training. The Canadians have it right. I have found that student pilots in the US are very nervous about stalls because they are afraid to get into a spin. If they had spin training, they would know it was no big deal and would stop worrying about stalls.