Goodbye SLC

[capt. megadeth]

Don't fly them into the ground with your non-union scabs.

Do you know what a scab is? The term seems to be thrown around pretty loosely lately.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

OK, just so I'm clear... has this been officially announced? There's nothing on MyASA.

 

[scarlet]

Ok is this not some what illegal ALPA---non-union workers taking union work---??? Maybe we do need the mofia back in the united states...they would take care of these CEOs in the USA---

 

[FL990]

Also transferring 13 70 seaters to SKYW.

I am confused...was this also anounced in the SLC crew lounge or is this part just speculatioin???

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Thats life my friend. Thats also a waste of ammo on your contract. Any base could close at any time. ATL looks quite safe though. Just ask military guys how often they have to move. We are not the only job that can require lots of relocation. Hell CVG could close even some day who knows anymore.

Tell that to the F/Os out there who are going to move twice in two years to keep a 40,000 dollar a year job. If I was in their shoes I would quit. I realize you probably don't have to worry about things like this, but that kind of shuffling around is very hard on a family. Bottom line is it's just not worth it for the kind of money that this job pays. Then again, why am I even bothering. If Freddy B asked you to move every three months for the next 10 years I'm sure you'd happily pack up and be on your merry way with his cock in your mouth the whole time.

 

[D'Angelo]

Tell that to the F/Os out there who are going to move twice in two years to keep a 40,000 dollar a year job. If I was in their shoes I would quit. I realize you probably don't have to worry about things like this, but that kind of shuffling around is very hard on a family. Bottom line is it's just not worth it for the kind of money that this job pays. Then again, why am I even bothering. If Freddy B asked you to move every three months for the next 10 years I'm sure you'd happily pack up and be on your merry way with his cock in your mouth the whole time.

Unfortunately moving is part of the job. Ask bank executives who have to move around all the time because of consolidation, elimination of their jobs etc. Ask people in the military. As people at all kinds of different jobs. Moving sucks but when you check that box that your willing to relocate its a risk you have to take. If they don't want to move they have every right to up and quit. You really need to go see a shrink. Your sexual fantasies are getting more bizarre by the minute. Again you guys give me way too much credit. Never even met Fred personally. Ive seen him from time to time but never actually spoke with him. You also have the right to commute however not the right to waste contract ammo on a commuter clause for the many people that choose to move and not commute. Would you have rather not been bought by skywest until after bankruptcy? That way they could have forced paycuts first, gotten a brand new deal then sold you off to skywest. You would be in a lot worse position that way.

 

[D'Angelo]

D'Angelo- You better check the tension on your braids, it's f'ing with your perspective. And, you sound like a company bitch. So, change your avatar to Tawana Brawley. Feel free to activate the ebonics translator.

Adam- Where should we go? Last I checked the industry was in the toilet. Lots of folks on the street with high times. I am thankful for what I have right now but while I am at ASA I will fight for the best contract!!

Lucky for you you got bought before delta drug you guys into bankruptcy otherwise you wouldn't even be talking about getting a new contract. I sense a touch of ungratefulness here.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

D'Angelo-

I think I can safely say that nobody at ASA gives one good crap about your take on what's going on at this company. I don't know why I even bother to respond to you.... Probably because I am bored and it amuses me that the software of this web-board will filter out the word *************************s (Geauxjets, or whatever...) but will let me use the word cock. I like that word. It amuses me. You, sir, are a big, fat cock in the mouth.

 

[Smacktard]

Tell that to the F/Os out there who are going to move twice in two years to keep a 40,000 dollar a year job. If I was in their shoes I would quit. I realize you probably don't have to worry about things like this, but that kind of shuffling around is very hard on a family. Bottom line is it's just not worth it for the kind of money that this job pays. Then again, why am I even bothering. If Freddy B asked you to move every three months for the next 10 years I'm sure you'd happily pack up and be on your merry way with his cock in your mouth the whole time.

I'm trying to look at the numbers here and see how this could possibly be cheaper for the company to do. If SkyWest is indeed going to 'take' 13 of ASA's planes we're looking at roughly 130-140 pilots that SkyWest will need to hire and train.

The cost to train 130 pilots has to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 million ($25,000 per newhire). If you compare that initial cost to the difference in wages (our 700 wages vs their 50 wages), and use that number times the flight hours of those 13 planes in a year (I figured roughly 9 hours a day, 117 hours for the 13 planes a day and 42705 hours a year), you can figure out how long it would take to get that money back.

To get the 2-3 million back in just training costs, and using the high end of the pay rates per seat per company, there is roughly $14 difference between ASA and SkyWest ($102 vs $92 and $44 vs $40 for the seats). This does not include profit sharing for SkyWest, so it's going to take even longer. At those rates, however, it will take 4 years 3 months to recover the costs. And that is a very conservative number using only the highest seat costs and not including profit sharing. I would argure that the number is closer to $8 dollars between the seats. At that rate, it will take 7 years 4 months to recover the costs.

So, is money the deciding factor or something else? Ok, it's late, too much mental analysis and I'm not that smart. Someone else run with it...

 

[D'Angelo]

ASA guys could have theirs rubbed off all day by pretty girls and theyd still find something to be pissed off about. Thats the most amusing part of it all. I truly think its impossible to make an ASA pilot happy.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

ASA guys could have theirs rubbed off all day by pretty girls and theyd still find something to be pissed off about. Thats the most amusing part of it all. I truly think its impossible to make an ASA pilot happy.

It's not at all impossible to make me happy. I, for one, could pretty much care less about having mine rubbed off all day by pretty girls. What I do care about is being able to provide for my wife and for my son. I care about saving for college tuition. I care about a mortgage payment on a modest home. I care about being able to keep up with the escalating price of a gallon of gas or a gallon of millk. I care about being financially secure enough to continue fostering homeless dogs until they can find a more permanent place to live.

Grow up, little boy. One day, assuming you ever run into somebody who can put up with your crap, you too will be faced with these concerns. When you look back you will understand how very wrong you were.

Oh yeah, and you're a cock.

 

[gator_hater]

By my math there are only about 7 ASA 70's opperating through SLC. We had 12-13 and then SKyW got 5 of their own and tok some of our routes. Losing planes sucks, but unless I'm missing something the number 13 sounds a little high.

 

[crash41]

ASA guys could have theirs rubbed off all day by pretty girls and theyd still find something to be pissed off about. Thats the most amusing part of it all. I truly think its impossible to make an ASA pilot happy.

You are a cockmaster!!!!! Isn't it about time for you to go give concessions somewhere? Do you even have a gag reflex anymore?????? Your stews have more balls than you!!!!!!!

 

[rjcap]

I'm trying to look at the numbers here and see how this could possibly be cheaper for the company to do. If SkyWest is indeed going to 'take' 13 of ASA's planes we're looking at roughly 130-140 pilots that SkyWest will need to hire and train.

The cost to train 130 pilots has to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 million ($25,000 per newhire). If you compare that initial cost to the difference in wages (our 700 wages vs their 50 wages), and use that number times the flight hours of those 13 planes in a year (I figured roughly 9 hours a day, 117 hours for the 13 planes a day and 42705 hours a year), you can figure out how long it would take to get that money back.

To get the 2-3 million back in just training costs, and using the high end of the pay rates per seat per company, there is roughly $14 difference between ASA and SkyWest ($102 vs $92 and $44 vs $40 for the seats). This does not include profit sharing for SkyWest, so it's going to take even longer. At those rates, however, it will take 4 years 3 months to recover the costs. And that is a very conservative number using only the highest seat costs and not including profit sharing. I would argure that the number is closer to $8 dollars between the seats. At that rate, it will take 7 years 4 months to recover the costs.

So, is money the deciding factor or something else? Ok, it's late, too much mental analysis and I'm not that smart. Someone else run with it...

My friend you are making way too much of this.

We knew SLC was going to close. It just didn't make sense to have a duplicate operation in the base. If JA wants the 700's in SLC then we should be happy to deliver them. Then he can pay the cost of setting up a "virtual" base of Skywest pilots in ATL. That word "virtual" reminds me of the 80's term of "synergy." It was BS then and its BS now.

Don't sweat it. After the contract is signed you will see those 700's back in ATL where they should have never left. Because at the end of the day, JA is a numbers man and he will run the company as efficiently as possible.

For all you tools out there who think we should take a paycut on the 700. Just remember, BL is licking his chops at the though of how big his bonus will be if we bend over and take the cut. Thats the same BL who can't seem to get the ramp operating correctly for the last 5 or so years ????
Thats the same BL who has turned a deaf ear to the ongoing war with scheduling.

For all those pilots in SLC. Start raising hell about the double move in 2 years. Make the company pay for the relocation and make d--n sure there is a workable commuter clause in the upcoming contract.

 

[172driver]

I, for one, could pretty much care less about having mine rubbed off all day by pretty girls.

What did he say?

 

[Superpilot92]

D'Angelo-

I think I can safely say that nobody at ASA gives one good crap about your take on what's going on at this company. I don't know why I even bother to respond to you.... Probably because I am bored and it amuses me that the software of this web-board will filter out the word *************************s (Geauxjets, or whatever...) but will let me use the word cock. I like that word. It amuses me. You, sir, are a big, fat cock in the mouth.

LOL, now thats funny!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wow, Jerry is going to have his hands full with labor issues shortly. He has done nothing but piss on the ASA folks since the purchase and with ALPA courting the SKYW guys now, it is only a matter of time. I see the good relationship with employees and the great corporate culture of SKYW deteriorating into what all other airlines have. I think the ASA purchase was a good thing for the guys looking at growth and money, but a very poor decision in the long run due to the poor morale that the whole deal is creating. In the long run upset employees will cost more than the money they are making by owning ASA. Looks like Jerry has finally turned into just another airline CEO.

Did any of y'all consider that it's just a show for the Skywest pilots who are very far into another ALPA organizational drive? The cost advantage here is to keep ALPA off the property. He's trying to convince the Skywest pilots that they are rewarded for being non-union.

It's pretty widely known that if ALPA fails at this third attempt to unionize Skywest, there won't be another attempt. This is why Jerry will go all out this time to fight it. While the drive is in place, ASA will be punished and Skywest will be rewarded. As soon as the no vote comes in, the Skywest pilots will get a pay cut and benefits cut. This is Airline Management 101, folks.

The real question, is what we ASA pilots will do to express our disatisfaction at the shrinking of our airline. We're losing 12-13 planes with the POSSIBILITY of getting Some -705 replacements. I'll believe that when they show up. Even so, Skywest would grow and we stagnate. Time to express our disatisfaction again. My expectations for the new contract just went up again, and I'm losing my "VISION".

 

[Bluto]

As soon as the no vote comes in, the Skywest pilots will get a pay cut and benefits cut. This is Airline Management 101, folks.

The real question, is what we ASA pilots will do to express our disatisfaction at the shrinking of our airline. We're losing 12-13 planes with the POSSIBILITY of getting Some -705 replacements. I'll believe that when they show up. Even so, Skywest would grow and we stagnate. Time to express our disatisfaction again. My expectations for the new contract just went up again, and I'm losing my "VISION".

I can see how ASA people would be upset by SLC's closure, but is it really a surprise? I'm only surprised it took this long for it to be announced. As far as the growth thing is concerned, I can't really see how you're upset about transferring your old airplanes to SkyWest and getting new ones at ASA. Yes, it's a net gain for SkyWest, while ASA just replaces airframes, but ASA isn't losing anything.

You're going to complain about the possibility of losing airplanes before it happens, but refuse to accept that you'll get new airplanes before that happens. So you accept the negative part of the rumor but not the positive? SkyWest pilots then become your scape-goat.

If you think getting a few old ASA 700's is going to change anybody's mind at SkyWest about union representation I think you are vastly undercrediting our pilot group. Maybe if we were as starved for growth as you appear to be, those few airplanes would be a motivator. We've been growing for years, a few extra airplanes isn't going to get any of us too excited.

 

[Socalplt]

I'm trying to look at the numbers here and see how this could possibly be cheaper for the company to do. If SkyWest is indeed going to 'take' 13 of ASA's planes we're looking at roughly 130-140 pilots that SkyWest will need to hire and train.

The cost to train 130 pilots has to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 million ($25,000 per newhire). If you compare that initial cost to the difference in wages (our 700 wages vs their 50 wages), and use that number times the flight hours of those 13 planes in a year (I figured roughly 9 hours a day, 117 hours for the 13 planes a day and 42705 hours a year), you can figure out how long it would take to get that money back.

To get the 2-3 million back in just training costs, and using the high end of the pay rates per seat per company, there is roughly $14 difference between ASA and SkyWest ($102 vs $92 and $44 vs $40 for the seats). This does not include profit sharing for SkyWest, so it's going to take even longer. At those rates, however, it will take 4 years 3 months to recover the costs. And that is a very conservative number using only the highest seat costs and not including profit sharing. I would argure that the number is closer to $8 dollars between the seats. At that rate, it will take 7 years 4 months to recover the costs.

So, is money the deciding factor or something else? Ok, it's late, too much mental analysis and I'm not that smart. Someone else run with it...

Something else to consider beyond just pilot wages-- ASA management/administrative cost in SLC, seperate MX personnel, etc.. Additionally, a fewer number of pilots on reserve will be needed with just one operation.

 

[sweptback]

I can see how ASA people would be upset by SLC's closure, but is it really a surprise? I'm only surprised it took this long for it to be announced. As far as the growth thing is concerned, I can't really see how you're upset about transferring your old airplanes to SkyWest and getting new ones at ASA. Yes, it's a net gain for SkyWest, while ASA just replaces airframes, but ASA isn't losing anything.

Of course it's a loss for ASA pilots! I don't know how anybody can possibly spin this in a good way.

SLC closes. We lose 12-15 airplanes OVERNIGHT.
Now all the SENIOR SLC folks come back and bid ATL CR7. The junior (and I use that term loosely because except for a few there's nobody really junior on the ATL CR7 list) pilots get bumped back to the CRJ, resulting in a PAY CUT.
ASA is now overstaffed roughly 120-150 pilots due to the loss of airframes. Assuming no furloughs, pilots who once held lines are back on relief or reserve, resulting in a PAY CUT due to less block hours flown, not to mention the massive QOL reduction.
The company could decide to turn up the heat once again, furloughing the bottom 120 pilots until there is a need for them once the 705s come.
Now the 705s are delivered starting in August at a rate of 3 per month (which is probably faster than it will be). Best-case scenario everybody is recalled and back to normal by 1/07.

To all you SkyWest pilots who think "oh well, we've gotten growth before, we won't mind it again," think of all the sacrifices that the ASA pilots will be taking for your growth. Even if (best-case scenario) we receive all of the promised 705s, resulting in a break-even situation, there's still going to be 6-10 months of pain as all of this crap is sorted out. This doesn't even account for the loss of the 12 ATRs in the Summer of 2007 that will have a similar effect on our pilot group.

What if the 705s are slated to come to ASA, but then our union and the company reach an impasse on pay negotiations for the new type (after all, it is a new type with a higher revenue generating capacity and therefore should justify a higher payrate, correct?). How easy would it be for SkyWest, Inc. to divert the 705s to SkyWest because there are no pesky labor issues? After all you've already signed on the dotted line to fly anything under 99 seats for the same 50-seat payrate! Don't think that this could happen? Just watch. Now ASA gets screwed out of the SLC-based 700s plus the supposed "replacement" 705s. I would almost be willing to bet money on this.

ASA pilots, this is yet another reason in the long list of reasons why we have to continue to fight for the best contract that we can possibly get, and a merger of the two pilot groups should be both of our pilots' highest priorities.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Exactly. Skywest KoolAid drinkers like Bluto believe everything their management tells them. We ASA pilots who have been lied to by management more times than we can count know that a "promise" of 705s means nothing until they show up. I doubt we will ever see the planes... it's just a carrot to keep 120 pilots from quitting overnight at outstations and screwing up the whole system!

 

[fsworld]

Well whatever the case is, i just hope a lot of slc people quit, i need to move up the list a little and thats the only way to do it. smile...

 

[Dave Benjamin]

What I find ironic is that when ASA cut into SKYW's SLC flying and caused a reduction in flying for SLC crews we didn't hear any whining from SKYW people on FlightInfo. Even though lineholders found themselves on reserve and block hours were reduced I don't recall SKYW folks complaining on FlightInfo, do you?

SKYW started flying out of SLC back as a codeshare partner for Western Airlines. The only reason ASA got a SLC base was DAL's fear of another strike and SKYW not being able to operate 700's. Now that SKYW can operate 700's and owns ASA there is no justification for a base in SLC. Yeah it sucks. Nobody likes to have their domicile closed. Blaming SKYW pilots for a corporate business decision is like blaming the mayor of Podunk for the federal deficit.

 

[Tomct]

Dave, once again you show what an idiot you are! The skywst group came into DFW and took a whole lot more of OUR flying than we ever took of their SLC flying. Most of ours here in SLC was from mainline, NOT skwst!

Front9...I don't believe that I said "burn the place down..." anywhere in my post, so go back to sleep! Yeah, we as a pilot group ARE ANGRY!! You don't have to be a genious to figure that out! Gee, I wonder why? Losing 13 airplanes, losing 2 bases and nothing but a bunch of HAPPY COCKS (thanks FmrFreightdog) at skywst about it!! Maybe someday you will figure that out after you take JA's xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx of your mouth!

AhAhAh....not nice. Let's disagree, but not be disagreeable about it ok.

Respectfully asked for your cooperation without time in the PB.
UAL78

 

[AdamKooper]

What do you expect when a Bottomfeeder airline like Skypest buys a normal airline.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave, once again you show what an idiot you are! The skywst group came into DFW and took a whole lot more of OUR flying than we ever took of their SLC flying. Most of ours here in SLC was from mainline, NOT skwst!

You haven't figured out that you don't "own" any flying. It's all up to DAL and the common parent company how that flying gets divided. Last I checked no airline management team has ever consulted the pilots on how the flying gets divvied up.

Your comment about SLC flying coming out of mainline makes you sound pretty happy about keeping furloughed DAL pilots on the street. You also appear to be claiming that SKYW did not suffer any reduction in flying as a result. The difference between most SKYW pilots and you on this forum is that the SKYW pilots aren't whining like a prepubescent girl who got grounded by her parents.

You need to come to grips with reality at some point.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Ummm....

What do you expect when a Bottomfeeder airline like Skypest buys a normal airline.

I think you meant, "what do you expect when a WELL RUN, PROFITABLE airlline, buys a regional from its bankrupt owner and saves EVERYONE at said regional from the mess that comes with bankrupcy? (just look at comair, those guys are wishing ANYONE would buy them!!!)

 

[AdamKooper]

I think you meant, "what do you expect when a WELL RUN, PROFITABLE airlline, buys a regional from its bankrupt owner and saves EVERYONE at said regional from the mess that comes with bankrupcy? (just look at comair, those guys are wishing ANYONE would buy them!!!)

Sorry Skywest is a Bottomfeeder airline much like Mesa. Also much like mesa they are profitable.

No skywest pilot will ever be allowed on my jumpseat again.

 

[homerjdispatch]

???

No skywest pilot will ever be allowed on my jumpseat again.

Arent you a true profesional!

Cant blame what management does on the pilot group. Instead of getting pissed at SkyWest pilots, maybe you should focus that energy into getting a fair contract from MANAGEMENT!!!!

 

[AdamKooper]

If skypest pilots cared they would vote Alpa on property and stop managment. But you know I don't think they really want it. They are happy screwing ASA. They get all the growth and none of the blame and they can say "Oh hey its not us its the mormons in charge". Pathetic

Staying with delta would have been better. I bet we still would have gotten those 705s and growth and not had skypest stab us in the back like that.