Good or bad for Avantair?

[av8orboy]

http://www.avantair.com/press/Ardent-Avantair Press Release.pdf

 

[jonjuan]

"Rivals the speed of most light cabin jets....the same cross section as a super-midsize cabin aircraft.......
5'6" high by 5'10" wide versus the 6'2" H and 7'2" W of the G200 and CL 300, both super-midsize aircraft. Looks like someone made a typo.
Is it really as fast as a 400XP?

 

[HA25]

I don't know, but those are cool looking turbo props.. whether the company is good to work for is a big unknown as I've never heard of anyone working for them.

 

[Twotter76]

Is it really as fast as a 400XP?

In a word, no.

 

[Dilligaff]

I don't know, but those are cool looking turbo props.. whether the company is good to work for is a big unknown as I've never heard of anyone working for them.

I've been at Avantair for almost two years - love it! Good people, cool airplane. I'm not sending out any resumes!

Dilligaff

 

[CaptainJaguar]

http://www.avantair.com/press/Ardent-Avantair Press Release.pdf

Last I heard from a friend was that the company had lost around 22 million dollars, and that it's still losing money! I just had a friend leave avantair b/c the employee family insurance actually went up. Oh yeah, I was also told that bills weren't getting paid again. I have a feeling that this place only has a couple more years left to live. Good luck to all you guys

 

[CaptainJaguar]

I've been at Avantair for almost two years - love it! Good people, cool airplane. I'm not sending out any resumes!

Dilligaff

Dont send them, but keep'em updated.

 

[Flybet3]

My card hasnt gotten declined yet, soooo. Haven't really heard much. Thank God

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Last I heard from a friend was that the company had lost around 22 million dollars, and that it's still losing money! I just had a friend leave avantair b/c the employee family insurance actually went up. Oh yeah, I was also told that bills weren't getting paid again. I have a feeling that this place only has a couple more years left to live. Good luck to all you guys

Yes, they are still losing money. They have to change their business model, or...... splat

​

 

[Flybet3]

Yes, they are still losing money. They have to change their business model, or...... splat

​

Pebbles! no time no fight! How are ya you rat?! LOL. I hate to say this but I agree with ya on that one, they're going to bleed money again if they do things the same way. i like avantair very much, but somethings just need to change quick. I hate to see more unemployed pilots!

 

[myrealnameis]

Dated Oct. 20th:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061120/20061120005456.html?.v=1

 

[jonjuan]

Unfortunately, 3/4 of all deliveries are going to Avantair. Shows that the aircraft really isn't accepted in the corporate marketplace. If they are the only company buying them new today, then who's going to buy them in 5-7 years when they are used and high time? Can't be good for valuations.

 

[myrealnameis]

your right, were all gonna die!

 

[av8orboy]

Why did they go with the Phenom 100's? Isn't it slower than the P.180? Less range?

 

[Flybet3]

Why did they go with the Phenom 100's? Isn't it slower than the P.180? Less range?

I'm still trying to figure that one out my self!

 

[General Lee]

Why did they go with the Phenom 100's? Isn't it slower than the P.180? Less range?

Like the Avanti, the Phenom will look cool on the ramp. I see a trend...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rettofly]

Why did they go with the Phenom 100's? Isn't it slower than the P.180? Less range?

My guess: 1. Purchase price
2. Embraer builds a/c for lots of annual hours and cycles. Most
a/c in this category are designed for 200-300 hrs annual util.
3. It will look cool on the ramp.

 

[myrealnameis]

My guess: 1. Purchase price
2. Embraer builds a/c for lots of annual hours and cycles. Most
a/c in this category are designed for 200-300 hrs annual util.
3. It will look cool on the ramp.

All are valid points to their reasons to consider this airplane. But everyone needs to realize that we really aren't competition to the likes of NJ, Options and Flex, yet. We are competition to the Dayjets and others who are trying to find their place in the market. I expect that future orders will include the Phenom 300.

 

[Noodles]

That's the one they should have gone with from the start. By ordering the smaller on, besided being a jet, they aren't getting anything better than the Piaggio. In some cases, it's probably going to be worse. Unless they can stem the $50 million losses, it's not gonna matter anyway.

 

[h25b]

We are competition to the Dayjets and others who are trying to find their place in the market.

Trying to find their place in the market ??? There's either a market or this is not. You should typically have that figured out BEFORE you go in to business.

 

[myrealnameis]

Trying to find their place in the market ??? There's either a market or this is not. You should typically have that figured out BEFORE you go in to business.

Your not understanding what I said. "Finding their place in the market" means there is a market out there. Alright let me put it this way. There is always a top and bottom of any business. If you could tell me with any degree of certainty how well any business will do before you actually start one, then I assume you don't have to fly for a living. There are so many variables in any aviation business these days there is alway gonna be someone at the top who can pick and chose their customers and those left picking up the scraps at the bottom.

 

[h25b]

There is always a top and bottom of any business. If you could tell me with any degree of certainty how well any business will do before you actually start one, then I assume you don't have to fly for a living.

Never applied for a business loan have you.... It's called a business plan and within it is what's called a market analysis. So yes, you usually do have to have a pretty good idea of where the market for your product/service lies before you go in to it. I think there's a market for Avantair, I just don't think it is as big as they're counting on. The business plan is evidently being very poorly executed. They had to have had financial backing from someone they've convinced of the market and have obviously attracted more. My guess would be that they've tapped out the P180 market and the new backers have figured they need to expand the market in to jets. Between FLIOPS, NetJets, and CitationShares the jet market from the traditional aircraft manufacturers is pretty much sewn up, hence the order from a new entrant Embraer.

Now, if you think for a minute they are not in competition with those others you are doomed to fail before you start because that's not how the others are looking at it I assure you. You are going after the same section of client. People who want X number of hours of private aircraft travel. They are a finite number of customers that the P180 serves. This is the same reason why you don't see NetJets just operating the Citation X. The have different fleets serving the various demographics and customer demands. So far they are staying away from the VLJ's because they've figured that the size of the market won't support the margins necessary to increase the economies of scale involved in adding an additional fleet type. (ie crew training, maintenance support, customer support, dispatch, etc...)

 

[BoeingBaller]

The sky is not falling chicken littles. STFU!!!

 

[CaptainJaguar]

Ok, all I know is that the Piaggio is probably one of the worst airplanes to do fractional business with. Who ever started this company probably liked the airplane b/c it looks cool and it's "fast" but didnt have any idea that the Piaggio will break and break and break if you try to fly it like a God*amn airliner!! This is what's going to kill this company. Especially if it already has problems making money. The airplanes have to fly and fly and fly, they can't sit. If airplanes sit they make no money, but unfortunately the piaggio will break and break and break, and therefor the company will have to pay and pay and pay for parts. Which last I heard they've had problems doing.

 

[HA25]

the Piaggio will break and break and break if you try to fly it like a God*amn airliner!!

Have you heard of the Citation X?

They're ALL not meant to be flown like airliners.. the CE500 series, and EMB-Legacy being possible exceptions.

 

[Flybet3]

Have you heard of the Citation X?

They're ALL not meant to be flown like airliners.. the CE500 series, and EMB-Legacy being possible exceptions.

BAM!!

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Your not understanding what I said. "Finding their place in the market" means there is a market out there. Alright let me put it this way. There is always a top and bottom of any business. If you could tell me with any degree of certainty how well any business will do before you actually start one, then I assume you don't have to fly for a living. There are so many variables in any aviation business these days there is alway gonna be someone at the top who can pick and chose their customers and those left picking up the scraps at the bottom.

You must be real dumb. That whole post shows a total lack of understanding about business.

​

 

[Flybet3]

You must be real dumb. That whole post shows a total lack of understanding about business.​

BAM BAM!!

 

[myrealnameis]

You must be real dumb. That whole post shows a total lack of understanding about business.​

Go ******************** yourself

 

[Noodles]

Why do all these Avantair threads always turn in to name calling?

I think all that was looked at when the Piaggio was purchased was that it's fast (for a turboprop), fuel effecient, and has unique looks. No one seems to have looked past that into such things as manufacturers support, parts support, or who can, or would, work on these things.

In my opinion, this company can not survive with the way things are currently being run. This new company buying out Avantair is simply throwing money into a bottomless hole....