Good MD-10 Article

[Purpled]

All of this thread is just speculation,

Welcome to FlightInfo.

At least the speculation in this thread attempts to give the benefit of the doubt to the aircrew in this latest MD-10 incident. Usually there is a burning at the stake before the crash crew has arrived.

 

[skiandsurf]

If they were a passenger carrier, the FAA would have shut them down.

.

This is from my first post on this topic. And I still feel that if a passenger carrier had this many incidents, the FAA would shut them down.

I do not, nor do I want to work for FedEx. I have never flown a DC10, MD10, or and MD11. I do know that UAL, AA, DAL and NWA have operated some form of the -10 without ever putting one on its backside or in the water at the end of the runway.

You guys can try and blame the design of the plane till your blue in the face, but like you guys always say, "boxes dont complain". I guess they dont get scared either. But they do burn real good. EWR....MEM...MEM...

 

[Lindy]

Research, please

skiandsurf -- you really need to perform a little more research

UAL lost a DC-10 in Chicago back in the 1970's for mx issues. It was a very unfortunate accident, claiming hundreds of lives.

As for AA, Cali mean anything? Little Rock? Hasn't AA had 5 hull loses in the the last 7 years? Again, very unfortuante accidents.

NWA? How about DTW.

I do not understand what your problem is with FedEx (besides sounding/acting arrogant, irascible, and ignorant).

 

[fartknocker]

I do know that UAL, AA, DAL and NWA have operated some form of the -10 without ever putting one on its backside or in the water at the end of the runway.

Check your facts. Here is a link to the NTSB website with AA's DC-10 accident history.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Response2.asp?spage=3&x_page_size=10&sql=Y&p1=1%2F1%2F1980&p2=8%2F8%2F2006&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=Air&p7=&p8=&p9=&p10=&p11=&p12=american+airlines&p13=&p14=&p15=&p16=ev%5Fdate&p17=Desc&p18=&p19=&p20=&p21=121&p22=&p23=&p24=dc%2D10

Look at the third page. 6/27/1985. N129AA. San Juan. Here is an excerpt from the accident report:

THE CAPT REJECTED THE TAKEOFF USING MAX BRAKING. UNABLE TO STOP
ON THE REMAINING RWY, HE ANGLED THE ACFT TO THE SAFEST AREA. THE ACFT STOPPED WITH ITS NOSE IN A LAGOON. ​

Here is another incident I found, not the same, but along the same lines we are talking about, gear failure:​

THE ACFT EXPERIENCED A COMPLETE TRUCK BEAM FAILURE AFTER TOUCHDOWN. METALLURGICAL EXAMINATION REVEALED A CRACK NEAR THE RIGHT REAR TRUCK PIVOT PIN LUBRICATION HOLE WHICH SHOWED PROPAGATION TO THE LOWER END OF THE GREASE HOLE ON THE MATING SURFACE. GREASE HOLE WALLS SHOWED PITTING & CORROSION. TIME INTERVALS FOR SERVICE BULLENTIN INSPECTIONS EXCEEDED THOSE RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER.​

From 12/7/83, N103AA, Newark, NJ.

Here's another link so you can research before you post again.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp#query_start​

I don't mind disputing with other people. I just don't like it when people say things when they have no idea what they are talking about.​

 

[ils2minimums]

This is from my first post on this topic. And I still feel that if a passenger carrier had this many incidents, the FAA would shut them down.

I do not, nor do I want to work for FedEx. I have never flown a DC10, MD10, or and MD11. I do know that UAL, AA, DAL and NWA have operated some form of the -10 without ever putting one on its backside or in the water at the end of the runway

AA did, in fact, put at least a couple of DC-10's to rest... One in the 1970s in ORD, and one in the 1990's in DFW (non-fatal)... And does Sioux City ring a bell? The list goes on...

As for your statement about passenger carrier incidents, again, I think you're wrong. AA has had an abysmal safety record in the last 10-12 years, and in the 1990's it seemed like everytime I looked, USAir had one in the drink or in a field, yet both carriers are still operating. Accidents happen, pilot error happens... FedEx is just having some bad luck lately, but I'm certain that'll change.

 

[skiandsurf]

I looked at the "incident reports", didnt find that AA put one on its back. Also didnt find one burning on the runway due to a hard landing. ( did find a hard landing where tha captain died on landing and the FO and FA steered it to the gate.....no fire).

You guys (and gal) can defend your safety record all day long, but if ASA or Mesa or Comair or Airwis or ********************taugua or Shuttle America or Trans States or Skywest or.................... you get the idea. If they were doing this, 2 in 2 days, you guys would be running to your company saying, "we are not going to be deadheading on XYZ commuter airlines till they get there house in order".

Am I right about that? ......and be honest.

 

[ss9e]

I looked at the "incident reports", didnt find that AA put one on its back. Also didnt find one burning on the runway due to a hard landing. ( did find a hard landing where tha captain died on landing and the FO and FA steered it to the gate.....no fire).

You guys (and gal) can defend your safety record all day long, but if ASA or Mesa or Comair or Airwis or ********************taugua or Shuttle America or Trans States or Skywest or.................... you get the idea. If they were doing this, 2 in 2 days, you guys would be running to your company saying, "we are not going to be deadheading on XYZ commuter airlines till they get there house in order".

Am I right about that? ......and be honest.

be honest, you're wrong.

 

[FedExFlyer]

Am I right about that? ......and be honest.

Let me be honest.....you're a tool

 

[JP4user]

UAL lost a DC-10 in Chicago back in the 1970's for mx issues. It was a very unfortunate accident, claiming hundreds of lives.

That was an American DC-10.

 

[Attkpuke]

SKI...16000 hours flying time and you talk like this. Thats alot of time and/or experience around airplanes. You're either a liar or a guy who's busted a lot of check rides. I dont know anyone with more than 1500 hours that has such a simple minded view of this profession. You know what they say..."God protects fools and drunks!"

 

[skiandsurf]

SKI...16000 hours flying time and you talk like this. Thats alot of time and/or experience around airplanes. You're either a liar or a guy who's busted a lot of check rides. I dont know anyone with more than 1500 hours that has such a simple minded view of this profession. You know what they say..."God protects fools and drunks!"

A lot....not alot.

Yes 16,000 hours+. Two engine failures. A list of other mechanical emergencies, and medical emergencies. I have never left a plane on the runway.

I just got my lastest issue of Airline Pilot magazine. The quote on the front cover from Capt. Robert Buck is appropriate....

"My heroes are the unknown, unheralded airline pilots who fly without incident or accident..."

I guess at FedEx they dont use that motto.

Now without an arguement, do you have a list of airlines that your company cannot travel you on? If so, who is on the list?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Dude, I don't know what your problem with us is...but this article is mostly about design flaw and structural integrity issues. It specificly points to how minor deviations made by the pilot should not have resulted in such an outcome.

No problem. My original question sounded pointed only because I didn't know a better way to ask it. I want to know what differences there are between operators that fly the same aircraft. As I mentioned in my most recent post, I'm not trying to start a flame-war here. I'm honestly stumped as to how FDX could be flipping and/or burning DC-10's (or their VERY similar variants) while other operators aren't. Since I flew the DC-10 at NWA (which has operated that type longer than FDX) I have some frame-of-reference on the characteristics of the DC-10-30 and -40. I also know a large number of FDX pilots, and every one of them is a skilled professional.

I'm just trying to what the difference is. Is it higher strut and/or tire pressures? Is the type of brakes? Is the SOP for landings?

I have too much regard for my FDX buddies to think that it is "poor piloting". I'm looking for some other cause.

Please expand on all of our DC-10 accidents, I'm tired and can't remember any of the details.

C'mon. We both know the history of flipped/burned DC-10's (and their variants) at FDX. At NWA there have been zero...dated back to well-before FDX took delivery of their first one. At FDX there have been more than zero.

If you believe it's merely a statistical aberration...say so. If you want to mud-wrassle on this Forum...say so.

I'm sorry if we didn't hire you, one of us boned your wife, or we lost your package.

Never applied. Fred Smith tried at a party in '88, but she's got a loud-mouthed Marine at home already. Nope...all on time and in good shape!

If it makes you happy-- "Northwest has the best pilots and I could only wish to stand in their shadow some day"...better?

Your self-esteem called. He wants to know if he can come home now. He promises to help you with your "wood" issues...

[And yes...I feel better. Thanks!]

Oh yeah, since you're Occam's Razor, then what would Occam's Razor say about multiple gear collapses in an airframe? Most obvious answer? That's right, there is a gear problem.

Wrong-o! The "most obvious" answer to the riddle of why only one US carrier flips and/or burns DC-10's and the others don't is they operate their aircraft differently. The gear is the same on our aircraft. And since some of your DC-10's were UAL aircraft, we can assume the gear is the same as well...unless you guys changed them after delivery.

 

[fartknocker]

I just got my lastest issue of Airline Pilot magazine. The quote on the front cover from Capt. Robert Buck is appropriate....

"My heroes are the unknown, unheralded airline pilots who fly without incident or accident..."

I guess at FedEx they dont use that motto.

Of course at FedEx they don't try to crash airplanes. Sh!t happens. I don't know of many airlines that haven't had a few incidents in their history. You try to learn from the mistakes of others and make improvements so that it doesn't happen again.

There's no reason to say one particular airline is more dangerous that any other.

 

[vschip]

Since I flew the DC-10 at NWA (which has operated that type longer than FDX) I have some frame-of-reference on the characteristics of the DC-10-30 and -40.

Occam, not to get into a mud slinging contest, I know NWA has had DC-10 for much longer than FDX, but how many? As of Jan 06, FDX had 47 MD-10's, and 48 MD-11's, as of 3/31/06, NWA had 14 DC-10's, I know that the MD-10's get at least 4 landings a day, 11's would get less due to longer legs, I guess, how many landings do the NWA DC-10's get daily? After flying MD-10's for a month, then having my recurrent this weekend in a 11 sim, they do fly differently, but no so different that a professional couldn't handle it. As for us flipping DC-10's, I don't feel like looking it up, but I think we've only flipped 11's, no 10's, either DC or MD. I'm not too proud of our safety record, but is there a recurrent theme? Being biased, the only one I can think of is old airplanes...any one know what was in the enders report???

 

[skiandsurf]

Now without an arguement, do you have a list of airlines that your company cannot travel you on? If so, who is on the list?

Still no answer. I will take that as a "yes". Now, who is on the no fly list and why?