Good Luck to the Frontier Pilots

[fiel12]

I fixed your quote with the items you "forgot."

I'm surprised FAPA didn't demand primae noctis rights.

 

[Whine Lover]

Yeah, OKAY........he chose to look naive in negotiations, so you guys would be over confident in your continuing TA negotiations.....riiiiiiiiiiight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What Guys?

I don't work for SWA , Frontier, or anyone for that matter.

Homey don't play your silly airline pilot games no mo'....

 

[737lj]

Genital Lee. Soon you will be talking to yourself. You are being put on many ignore lists at records pace. The future for you is posting and then you answer your own posts with all your other screen names.

DOH NOW

M

For anyone else pondering whether or not to put the General on IGNORE status - I did it a month ago - I never knew I could have it so good!

For those of you who do choose to receive his messages, please refrain from quoting him. Unfortunately I have discovered no way to block his quotes.

 

[crashpad]

GL is a seasoned airline professional and member who posts opinion unpopular with sunglass-wearing, gell-haired, supercool, pud-whacking pilot-pups.

 

[StaySeated]

I'm surprised FAPA didn't demand primae noctis rights.

That was one of the six items that were agreed upon.

Unfortunately, after re-reading the SWAPA proposal and reallizing that it did not include recall rights or domicile protection, we reallized that they were doing the *************************g, not their new wives.

 

[fiel12]

That was one of the six items that were agreed upon.

Unfortunately, after re-reading the SWAPA proposal and reallizing that it did not include recall rights or domicile protection, we reallized that they were doing the *************************g, not their new wives.

Could have been worse. SWAPA could have offered up our FAs (No offense to any WN FAs on here. Love you, mean it).

 

[crashpad]

Could have been worse. SWAPA could have offered up our FAs (No offense to any WN FAs on here. Love you, mean it).

That was a bone-us I was looking forward to.

 

[FatesPawn]

I fixed your quote with the items you "forgot."

loss of their seniority and crew base for an "as needed" job interview.

Careful about misinformation. "job interviews" were not on the table. They were going to be given jobs - all of them including the 50+ already on furlough. You are correct they would lose all their seniority.

-fate

*edit*

yes, there were going to be more furloughs, but they would all have seniority numbers was my point. Absolutely positively no interviews.

 

[rajflyboy]

Anyone who doesn't see Frontier as being screwed and Republic as riding the gravey train of shattered careers has their head up their, well, you know where...

I agree.

 

[crashpad]

I'm glad you agree (yawn)....now, lower the gear pretzel-boi.

 

[StaySeated]

Careful about misinformation. "job interviews" were not on the table. They were going to be given jobs - all of them including the 50+ already on furlough. You are correct they would lose all their seniority.

-fate

*edit*

yes, there were going to be more furloughs, but they would all have seniority numbers was my point. Absolutely positively no interviews.

OK, for the millionith time. Call Tom, or email him. Ask him to see the "SWAPA Proposal". Not the SWAPA "talking points", or any form of communication with the SWAPA pilots. Ask to see what was offered as the proposal to the FAPA pilots.

Look very closely. It is only one page long. Look on both sides if you have to, and you will not find anything about recall rights.

You will find some very interesting language about how the current and future FAPA furloughs would have been treated.

After you read the proposal, ask him how many times he was asked specifically about recall rights by FAPA, and then ask him what his specific answer was, or wasn't.

I don't know why I even care anymore, but every time I see someone post something that I know to be completely innacurrate I get a little spooled up. I guess when I begin to get raped by RAH I will forget all about SWAPA Proposal. Good Times.

 

[GuppyWN]

OK. I can't stay quiet about this.

StaySeated does your contract have recall rights? SWA contract does.

What's my point?

You're over-reacting to something that's already in the contract. It has nothing to do with a "proposal." The intent was to run the companies seperately for at least two years. In that time F9 would use F9's contract and WN would use WN's contract.

Recall rights weren't in the proposal because they aren't needed. We both already have them. To hammer it home - were the following in the proposal?

1. vacation bidding
2. reserve rules
3. scheduling
4. scope/codeshare language
5. training

Get it?

So you're welcome for offering every single F9 pilot a job - even the furloughed.

Gup

 

[shearedshaft]

I guess when I begin to get raped by RAH I will forget all about SWAPA Proposal. Good Times.

I suspect it will be more of a gang-rape. The Republic Teamsters are salivating over flying your airplanes for you and if you think the Teamsters are going to treat you guys better than SWAPA, it might be time for a probable-cause drug test.

You are going to get anally-invaded first by Republic, then by Republic's Teamsters. I suspect the TA that your leadership secretly negotiated with Republic is going to be ripped with Teamster fangs.

Dude, they want your seat. "They" being the current regional pilots who are in charge of your new union. I suspect Stemmler thinks he gets to keep playing the big shot, but from what I've heard, the Teamsters are turning their sights to him.

You guys made a horrific mistake, and hearing the nonsense about recall rights (you have it wrong as you've probably figured out by now) makes me think that you don't know exactly how big a mistake you've made.

First the Teamsters are coming for Stemmler. Then they're coming for your seat on the Airbus. If you have any doubt, do a quick search on here about the Teamsters. I'd start with Midwest and Republic, then get a little more history just for flavor.

Can you feel the drool on the back of your neck?

 

[StaySeated]

I suspect it will be more of a gang-rape. The Republic Teamsters are salivating over flying your airplanes for you and if you think the Teamsters are going to treat you guys better than SWAPA, it might be time for a probable-cause drug test.

You are going to get anally-invaded first by Republic, then by Republic's Teamsters. I suspect the TA that your leadership secretly negotiated with Republic is going to be ripped with Teamster fangs.

Dude, they want your seat. "They" being the current regional pilots who are in charge of your new union. I suspect Stemmler thinks he gets to keep playing the big shot, but from what I've heard, the Teamsters are turning their sights to him.

You guys made a horrific mistake, and hearing the nonsense about recall rights (you have it wrong as you've probably figured out by now) makes me think that you don't know exactly how big a mistake you've made.

First the Teamsters are coming for Stemmler. Then they're coming for your seat on the Airbus. If you have any doubt, do a quick search on here about the Teamsters. I'd start with Midwest and Republic, then get a little more history just for flavor.

Can you feel the drool on the back of your neck?

I honestly don't know where to begin.

Go read your own proposal and then explain why furloughed pilots were going to remain "FAPA pilots with FAPA as their bargaining agent".

 

[GuppyWN]

I honestly don't know where to begin.

Go read your own proposal and then explain why furloughed pilots were going to remain "FAPA pilots with FAPA as their bargaining agent".

Because FAPA IS their bargaining agent.

The SWAPA contract stipulates that SWA cannot run two airlines seperately except in this situation and only for a short time. Once the airlines are combined there can only be one union and that union is SWAPA. Therefore your furloughed guys who would then be SWA employees would fall under SWAPA representation and be given full rights of recall.

I just can't be any clearer than that. You have been misinformed and are hanging on wording that isn't in a document it isn't supposed to be in.

Gup

 

[Porch]

StaySeated, GuppyWN... So what is the conclusion to the recall rights? I understand it the way GWN does, with recall rights. I know A LOT of F9 pilots are adamant about this issue and were pro Republic because of it.

 

[waveflyer]

Grasping at straws. You don't understand if you haven't worked at SWA. Your furloughs would be fought for now. Ie: right NOW.

But seriously- LET IT GO. Pilots had choices in this one and made them. At least we had choices- how many times have we not as an industry? If it ends up a bad choice- at least it's one THEY made. It still sucks- but I can always live with the bad choices I make, knowing I generally make more good ones than bad.

I'll move on by saying we ought to have placed some amount of longer term F9ers into the list. But it's all hindsight now.

 

[GuppyWN]

StaySeated, GuppyWN... So what is the conclusion to the recall rights? I understand it the way GWN does, with recall rights. I know A LOT of F9 pilots are adamant about this issue and were pro Republic because of it.

SECTION 18 - REDUCTION IN FORCE, FURLOUGH AND RECALL​

​

​

A. A pilot who is released from the service of the Company due to reduction in force and who is subsequently re-employed, will retain seniority and longevity to the time of the release, but will not continue to accrue seniority or longevity after release until and unless re-employed. If such pilot keeps the Company advised of a current address, such pilot will be re-employed in seniority order, provided, however, that at the end of seven years from the date of layoff, a pilot who has not been re-employed by the Company will forfeit all seniority and will not be entitled to preference in re-employment.

Gup

 

[Porch]

SECTION 18 - REDUCTION IN FORCE, FURLOUGH AND RECALL​

​

​

A. A pilot who is released from the service of the Company due to reduction in force and who is subsequently re-employed, will retain seniority and longevity to the time of the release, but will not continue to accrue seniority or longevity after release until and unless re-employed. If such pilot keeps the Company advised of a current address, such pilot will be re-employed in seniority order, provided, however, that at the end of seven years from the date of layoff, a pilot who has not been re-employed by the Company will forfeit all seniority and will not be entitled to preference in re-employment.

Gup

There you go... I don't know where these guys are getting this furlough info. from. Maybe this great source @ FlightInfo, then spreading it like wildfire to keep the dang animals alive. I've said many-a-time their info is incorrect and lacked validity. Now we (F9'ers) get to pay the price at Republic. So were back to the same $hit... Wouldn't we be better off having a short term layoff, collecting unemployment and spending time with our families; & then go back to a Fortune 12 company?!? I guess "90%" (BS on that number too, it's more like 10%) will be ecstatic to continuing to work for sub-standard wages vs. taking some time off and enjoying life while a killer job awaits you. The short-sightedness of this group is sad and have always voluntarily taken the short end of the stick. When the Republic repercussions begin to ripple down, they will realize what a grave mistake they have made. I'm still pissed, but have no control or input. This is what happens when your union is ran by pilots who have never worked for a major or regional... Most are corporate pilots & F9 is their first airline job. Now the Republic group want's A320 seats... which I can't blame them. They bought us... they deserve it. Right? I can't wait to see what happens to the great schedules we had and how QOL goes through the roof. I'd rather be unemployed than work for Republic.

 

[learherkjay]

What is the point of this? It never happened and therefore is a waste of time to argue over what ifs. Seems to me everyone got what they wanted.