gold seal cfi

[list2002]

Are you allowed to submit any 10 sign-offs you have done in the past for a gold seal cert? Or does the 80% first time pass rate have to come from EVERY practical sign off you've done?

 

[avbug]

FAA Order 8700.1 Volume II, Chapter 13, Paragraph 5(e)(e)(a) provides the requirements for issuance of a gold seal certificate.

You must recommend at least 10 applicants. You may recommend more. However, you must have at a minimum an 80% pass rate among your applicants.

If you happen to be an examiner, you may credit two examinations given for one student recommended.

Thus, it isn't eight out of ten total, but 80% of the applicants you recommend for a practical test for a certificate or rating. Note also that this isn't total pass rate, but passed on the first attempt.

 

[list2002]

Thanks for the reply, I'm wondering if in theory I could have a total of 10 out of 100 students passing on their first try, but use only that ten which passed for evidence of my record and claim 100%?
I'm doing good so far, but the way it was worded where I read it made it seem that anyone once they finally pass 8 guys on their first try can get a gold seal regardless of their previouse record (as long as they have two more students they endorsed, to make the total sample the required 10)

 

[avbug]

Ten is the minimum total number of students. You must have an 80% pass rate. If you have ten recommended applicants, you must have 8 pass.

If you have 100 recommended applicants, you must have 80 of those pass.

The total number of recommended applicants is measured over the previous 24 months.

You may not select a group of ten applicants and exclude the other recommendations. You must have a 80% pass rate among all whom you recommend for a certificate or rating.

 

[Wiggums]

What if you recommend someone who has failed their initial with another CFI. If they fail again, the second time under a second CFI, will it count againist the second CFI?

 

[avbug]

You are not held responsible for the actions of another instructor. You are held responsible for your own.

Regardless of weather an applicant has failed before, you are responsible if you endorse that applicant for a practical test. If the applicant fails when you have endorsed him or her, then you are responsible.

Generally speaking, a failure of a student here or there will happen, and it's not going to hurt you. If 30% or more fail, you will be placed under "surveilance." The FAA takes a special interest in you, and you will be watched, pending enforcement action to revoke your certificate.

Be aware that this can affect not only your instructor certificate, but also your pilot certificate. Certificate action isn't against one or the other, it's against the individual that holds them.

It is a given that individuals will fail from time to time. Despite your best efforts, this will occur. The Administrator understands this. For this reason, you are not required to show a 100% pass rate. 80% is a reasonable minimum standard.

 

[Wiggums]

Yeah, I am still above 80%. But when I go down to the FDSO with my list of passes how should I count this guy that I signed off for a retake that failed again? Does he count againist my pass rate for gold seal?

 

[list2002]

Thanks for the info avbug. Wiggums I think that student does count towards (or against) your 80%. Because it was YOUR first endorsment of him and he didn't pass.

 

[avbug]

Wiggums,

Again, if you endorsed him, it counts. If you endorsed him for a retake after he failed with someone else, it still counts because you endorsed him. One failed student for you.

There's more. If you endorse him and he fails, it counts as a failure for you. If you endorse him and he fails again, he counts as another failure. And another, and another, so long as it keeps happening. You're held responsible for each recommendation, and every time you recommend (ad infinitum) and the student fails, it counts to your detriment. In this case against your ability to obtain a gold seal, and ultimately against your ability to hold a flight instructor (and possibly airman) certificate.

The first run (first-time applicant) requirement only applies to the successful applicants you can count for the gold-seal requirement.

As an example, you have 10 total students. Two fail, but both pass on their second attempt. You are acceptable, as you still have an 80% first time pass rate.

You have 10 total students. Three fail, but pass on their second attempt. You are not eligible for the gold seal certificate, because these didn't pass on their first attempt. You have made 13 recommendations (10 the first time around, and three the second). 80% must pass on the first try. You had 70% pass on the first try.

You have 15 students. Ten pass on the first attempt two on the second attempt. You have a 67% initial pass rate, and are liable for certificate action. You will be placed under surveilance. Your overall pass rate, after recommending all five of the first-time failures, then drops to 60%. With the initial pass rate so low, and the second time pass rate at only 40%, you are then almost certain to face certificate action.

Again, a good reason to ensure a student is ready before recommending him or her for a certificate, rating, or knowledge test.

 

[chrisdahut24]

Avbug,

How about if I send someone up under part 141? I've always thought that since the 8710 does not get submitted until the student passes, and since the student isn't really taking a checkride (only an end of course test), that 141 may be somewhat immune to FAA scrutiny. However, I've been told by one of my suepriors that the FAA monitors our performance based on stage check, end of course as well as FAA (part 61) checkrides. I don't really see how this is possible, nor have I ever seen anything in writing supporting this. Could you share your view?

Many thanks.