Going IFR in non-tower airport

[dtoften]

Hi,

Got a question for you all in the know. I know that you can call FSS and pick up an IFR clearance for non-tower airport. Then you call ATC when ready to take off or taken off in VFR before going into IFR conditions and call ATC then, right? What if you are in a mountain area where you can't pick up ATC on the ground and it's IFR all around. Can you take off in the clouds until you high enough to pick up ATC in Class E. I suspect you can do this in Class G without talking to ATC at all, right? Just have to talk to ATC before going into Class E.

Any references to FAR/AIM would be nice if ya know. Thx.

PS. Also, is the pilot respondible to maintain terrian clearance while trying to fly high enough to get ahold of ATC? I assume so if able to take off.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Hi,

Got a question for you all in the know. I know that you can call FSS and pick up an IFR clearance for non-tower airport. Then you call ATC when ready to take off or taken off in VFR before going into IFR conditions and call ATC then, right? What if you are in a mountain area where you can't pick up ATC on the ground and it's IFR all around. Can you take off in the clouds until you high enough to pick up ATC in Class E. I suspect you can do this in Class G without talking to ATC at all, right? Just have to talk to ATC before going into Class E.

Any references to FAR/AIM would be nice if ya know. Thx.

PS. Also, is the pilot respondible to maintain terrian clearance while trying to fly high enough to get ahold of ATC? I assume so if able to take off.

You can troll around in G IMC all you want no clearance needed; it's not controlled. I fly out of an airport in the mountains where you can't get ATC until you get up to 11,000' or out through the canyon. You can just call and get the clearance, then contact ATC once airborne and able to get two-way communications. You might want to just fly the DP and get a hold of them that way. As long as you can maintain min. climb.

Unless receiving vectors from ATC you are required to maintain terrain clearance in VMC.

 

[Vector4fun]

Actually, if you cannot reach FSS or ATC on the ground via RCO or similar, then the safest and easiest way to communicate with them is via cell phone! Get the direct number to the approach control or Center with jurisdiction and plug it in your speed dial memory. You can call for your IFR clearance and release from the run-up pad!

Just remember to turn it off before takeoff.....

Also a very handy way to cancel too. (don't forget, or we send the Sheriff looking for ya)

 

[maverick_fp00]

just don't forget to look over those departure procedures.... there are lots of things that are never taught in instrument training. during training you hardly go IMC at night through mountains or even at non-towered airports... at least not in the south.... maybe some instructors do that, but I haven't seen it. Most knowledge comes with experience.

I don't want people to start jumping my case because i only have 400 hours, but having the opportunity to fly in a 421 and Navajo quite a bit has given me a bit more experience than the average 400 hour pilot. so, i'm not saying i have all this experience. anyway, great question!

-nick

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

dtoften,

ahh yes, i remember thinking the same question some years back. Reference AIM 5-2-4...in particular clearance void times and note the notes. So yes, you can depart into controlled airspace with a clearance void time. ATC will restrict IFR a/c from that airport until you check in with them. Just make sure you do not depart after the clearance void time other wise you will be in violation with being IFR without a clearance (see the notes). Also i would be real careful doing this because you are responsible for your own obstacle clearance until you are under radar vectors or are part of the enroute structure (unless flying a published DP).

Hope that answers some questions for ya...

 

[dtoften]

Thanks for info. Just wanted to clarify the issue and make sure no hidden issues. I will look at the AIM reference you mentioned. Take care.

 

[aviator_43]

Assuming you're Part 91 (and either really brave or really stupid) you can blast off 0-0 into uncontrolled airspace and do basically whatever you want (subject to the other 91 regulations pertaining to IFR operation). Oftentimes ATC will give you an instruction as to how they want you to enter controlled airspace (e.g. let's say controlled airspace starts at 1,200' AGL as it does in most places, ATC could stipulate "enter controlled airspace on a 220 heading" or whatever, but whatever you do prior to reaching that threshold point is up to you. Crazy, huh?

 

[labbats]

One thing to know about void times is that you better have your airplane all set up before you call up for it. You generally get about 10 minutes after you hang up before you have to take off.

 

[nosehair]

Yeah, when you call on the telephone for a clearance - with a void time - you had better be totally set up and ready for departure - right then! Just like when you're in the airplane at a tower airport - when you call the tower ready for take-off, you are actually ready to apply power for the take-off roll. Have your airplane run-up done instruments/radios set, maps, charts,etc, in place, ready to hang up the phone, jump in the airplane and GO! If you are not IN THE AIR within 10 minutes from hangin' up the phone, you're dead in the water on the runway in the 11th minute...so, practice this drill before you do it actual...save yourself some disappointment.

 

[Checks]

I routinely get my clearances via FSS and I never accept only a 10 minute window. Tell the FSS specialist, who probably doesnt have a pilots license, that you need at least 20 minutes. Trust me, you will get what YOU need.

 

[DCitrus9]

If there is an RCO on the field where you can talk to a FSS, but not ATC, then do NOT get your void time until you are at the hold short line. I've seen too many morons treat it like the phone call, ie. calling FSS on the radio before even cranking the engines, then somebody else ready to go at the hold short line gets stuck waiting for you. It just wastes airspace.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I routinely get my clearances via FSS and I never accept only a 10 minute window. Tell the FSS specialist, who probably doesnt have a pilots license, that you need at least 20 minutes. Trust me, you will get what YOU need.

Why do you call for the clearance so early? Instead of closing the airspace for 20 minutes if it's IMC why don't you do what most professionals do and call shortly prior to departure? Otherwise the inbounds are stuck in holding burning up fuel and falling behind schedule while other outbounds that would have been ready to go in far less time are stuck waiting for you as well. Some 121 carriers aren't allowed to cancel period (QX?) so even on a VFR day they're stuck waiting for you to get on your way. Hopefully ATC/FSS will not grant you an excessive amount of time if there's other traffic routinely operating from that airfield but when they do it really messes up things for others. We routinely depart in the early AM's when twr is closed and we generally don't call for a clearance until about 3 mins prior if that long.

 

[Checks]

When you say you call 3 minutes prior I believe you must be talking about calling on the Radio via a designated clearance delivery freq or direct to the local FSS. What my post refered to was getting a clearance via the telephone. The previous 2 messages alluded to the quickness one must be moving to go from the FBO telephone to the aircraft, run-up, depart IMC, and get in contact with ATC prior to the clearance void time. In my situation, I typically need to load my passengers(one is on a stretcher) after getting my clearance. This alone can eat up 5 minutes.
If there is inbound traffic to my ricky dink airport then ATC will not issue my clearance with the void time I want. Then I have to either wait or accept a shorter void time.
The point I was trying to make is that someone shouldnt feel rushed in departing IFR in IMC conditions, there usually isnt anybody else inbound to BFE airport at o' dark thirty and the only reason ATC gave you the 10 minute void time is because nobody ever asks for more time. If you need more time then try and get it.

 

[regionalcap]

I agree that you should wait until you are taxiing the airplane or at least just prior to starting the engines. However, at some smaller airports, cell phone coverage may be inadequate when calling the FSS.

 

[varicam]

Typically I cant reach ATC until about 5000ft, which takes me about 2 minutes to reach.

All the telephone clearances I've received state that "clearance void if not OFF before xxxx". The requirement to contact ATC before the void time is news to me.

 

[Checks]

You are correct.

What was I thinking?