Going from a civilian to fighter pilot

[flyf15]

Going from a civilian to military pilot

Hey guys,

I am extremely unknowledgable with anything to do with the military, but lately my interest has been growing greatly. I like the idea of serving my country and I'm very interested in joining the military and, well, flying jets. Fighters, bombers, transports, it all sounds good to me...

I'm currently a pretty young guy with a B.S. in engineering under my belt as well as being a CFI with about 600 hours. In good health, eyesight good enough to pass a First Class medical without glasses.

So, my three questions...
1) Do I stand a chance? I'm already done with college so no academies or ROTC for me.
2) Is is possible to be guarenteed to fly before officially signing up?
3) How do I go about starting all of this? Like I said, I'm clueless... just a wide-eyed kid with big dreams.


I'm sure stuff like this comes up a lot, thanks much all for the help.

 

[TankerDriver]

First of all, I'll let you know I spent almost 7 years asking myself, "Do I stand a chance?" until I finally bit the bullet and decided to apply and here I am 4 years later as a pilot in the AF. You'll never know unless you try. From what you say above, you've got as much of a chance as anyone else, if not better. Of course, above average AFOQT and BAT scores, as well as a high PCSM score are going to help even more. Having a CFI will help you with that stuff.

I went the OTS route. You can apply for a pilot slot/nav slot and will find out as a civilian whether or not you got the slot. You will also go through a Flight Class I physical in the application process and I believe they now send you to Brooks for the FCI and medical flight screening at the same time. In the past, you just did the FCI and then did the medical flight screening at Brooks AFB, TX after you were commissioned. This was a slight risk because you could still be DQ'd out of UPT at Brooks after you were commissioned and be reclassified to another career field. But, as I said, I believe they are knocking everything out at once, which makes sense (they should have done it like this all along IMO).

If you don't get the slot, you are still a civilian and can choose not to go to OTS and even better, you can try again. With your qualifications, as long as you found a good recruiter, jumped through the right hoops with the application paperwork, got good scores on your AFOQT/BAT tests, got a few good recommendation letters, etc... I see you being very competitive. Now, this is for Active Duty Air Force. You can also try the Air National Guard or AF reserves route, which is sorta a different ball game.

If for any reason you feel that you wouldn't want to serve in the Air Force if you weren't able to fly in the Air Force (in other words, as an unrated officer in another career field), I wouldn't recommend you take this route. The only reason I say this is, I see so many of these posts from "wide-eyed kids with big dreams" wanting to be a jet jock wearing a green suit (or more like a tan suit these days) and really don't know what being an officer in the AF is all about. It's not all about flying and a lot of the time, you'll be doing stuff totally unrelated to flying. Trust me, I was in your shoes 4 years ago with "big dreams" and a lot of the stuff I do on a daily basis as an officer was not in my big dreams. Call it being naive and not doing my homework. Do your homework and know exactly what you're getting yourself into, because the recruiters won't necessarily tell you these things. You walk into their offices and what do they have plastered all over their walls? Pictures of F-16's, 15's, KC-10's refueling F-16's/15's, C-17's kicking up dust on an unprepared strip, you name it, cool stuff indeed, but they don't show you the picture of the desk you will work at 4-5 days a week while you're not flying. Yes, there are other things pilots (officers) do in the AF. Having a CFI already, I can see you've put some significant time and money into flying. You probably want a flying career. Being a pilot in the AF may not be what you consider a flying career.

That said, it's a great opportunity to fly some cool stuff that noone in the commercial world in their right minds would allow you to put your little mitts on with 300 hours of flight training. The most fun I've ever had in an aircraft was in UPT flying the T-6. Just know that you may not fly as much as you may have thought, especially if you fly fighters. These guys/gals fly about 250-300 hours a year. You will, however, spend a gazillion hours in a vault studying weapon parameters and tactics. You go out, do your 1.2 hour sortie, run out of gas and return to base. Heavy pilots get about 600-800 hours a year. I've flown about 600 this past year in the KC-135. 400 of that is combat time over Iraq/Afghanistan.

Good luck. Look for recruiters that deal with Air Force Officer Training School accessions.

 

[Mongoose69]

1.2 fighter hours != 1.2 anything else hours

The most fun I've ever had in an aircraft was in UPT flying the T-6. Just know that you may not fly as much as you may have thought, especially if you fly fighters. These guys/gals fly about 250-300 hours a year. You will, however, spend a gazillion hours in a vault studying weapon parameters and tactics. You go out, do your 1.2 hour sortie, run out of gas and return to base. Heavy pilots get about 600-800 hours a year. I've flown about 600 this past year in the KC-135. 400 of that is combat time over Iraq/Afghanistan.

How can I put this politely...

When that 1.2 hrs of flying is the most intense/fun/challenging 1.2 hrs that you have ever spent in your life, it more than makes up for any BS you have to put up with the rest of the time.

There are billions of people in the world that would pay millions of dollars (if they had it) to go do what I get to do every day - and I get paid for it!

I'll let everyone elses' comments stand on the commitment/non-flying duties/family issues, because they're all true. But my point is this: there is NOTHING else in the world to compare with flying a fighter. Period.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Occam's Razor]

I agree with Mongoose69. There is no comparison. Eating a box lunch on your way home from the AR track isn't quite the same as having snot trickle down your throat in a high-G turn, trying to keep sight.

Don't get me wrong, SAR bubbas and Tanker drivers don't pay for beer if I'm in the bar too, but there is nothing...NOTHING like flying a fighter.

 

[bssthound]

Occam's Razor posted

having snot trickle down your throat in a high-G turn, trying to keep sight.

You obviously haven't spent much time in Miss'ippi. We had to contend with streams of sweat pouring down the visor,too!

That being said I gotta jump on this bandwagon. Any BS you have to put up with is worth it when it's time to step to the jet.

Another thing, you will serve with the best people you will meet in your life. Yeah, like everywhere else, there is the occasional tool, and the military attracts some first-class tools, but, overall, you'll serve with some truly outstanding folks.

 

[Draginass]

Go talk to a recruiter. Keep in mind that the USAF eye exam is going to be a lot more extensive than a FAA First Class Medical. FAA medicals are a joke compared to a USAF exam.

 

[flashman]

I went through OTS also. Ditto above. You could also consider going through ROTC if you want to finish a masters program, BUT remember the age cutoff....if you are close to it I say go OTS....

 

[RedDogC130]

How can I put this politely...


I'll let everyone elses' comments stand on the commitment/non-flying duties/family issues, because they're all true. But my point is this: there is NOTHING else in the world to compare with flying a fighter. Period.

I guess the only thing I would compare it to is a rectal exam. Considering I have done neither..the fighter or the exam, the people I have met look like they just did both. Just kidding with you Jason. Just for the record, real men and women fly Herks. There I said my part. Enjoy the ride and the deployments if you go any route. Seriously Jason I have nevr had an exam.

 

[Slice121]

2 words: Go Guard!

 

[TankerDriver]

How can I put this politely...

When that 1.2 hrs of flying is the most intense/fun/challenging 1.2 hrs that you have ever spent in your life, it more than makes up for any BS you have to put up with the rest of the time.

There are billions of people in the world that would pay millions of dollars (if they had it) to go do what I get to do every day - and I get paid for it!

I'll let everyone elses' comments stand on the commitment/non-flying duties/family issues, because they're all true. But my point is this: there is NOTHING else in the world to compare with flying a fighter. Period.

Cheers,
Jason

Put it however you want (thanks for sparing me with politeness, though ), but there are actually people out there that don't enjoy flying fighters and would have rather gone heavies (I personally know one of them). Of course, you'll probably find more people in the heavy world wishing they had gone or gotten fighters, but there are a few who go the other way.

I would agree that there probably is nothing in the world like flying a fighter, but yet, there are people that decide, for whatever reason, they do not want to go that route.

 

[flyf15]

First off, thanks much for all the information everyone. So, I should go talk to any Air Force recruiter? Or are there ones that specifically deal with people such as myself?

Go talk to a recruiter. Keep in mind that the USAF eye exam is going to be a lot more extensive than a FAA First Class Medical. FAA medicals are a joke compared to a USAF exam.

What are the requirements as far as eyes go anyways? All I've heard is that your eyes must be "perfect."

 

[Occam's Razor]

First off, thanks much for all the information everyone. So, I should go talk to any Air Force recruiter? Or are there ones that specifically deal with people such as myself?

What are the requirements as far as eyes go anyways? All I've heard is that your eyes must be "perfect."

Plano/Sphere, no astigmatism, no color blindness, normal depth perception.

 

[TankerDriver]

First off, thanks much for all the information everyone. So, I should go talk to any Air Force recruiter? Or are there ones that specifically deal with people such as myself?

Again, you need to find an "OTS Accession" recruiter. There are usually one one branch office in specific regions, so you may have to drive an hour or two to your closest OTS recruiter.

Look in the phone book for an AF recruiter. Even if they're not an OTS recruiter, they can most likely point you in the right direction.

 

[SIG600]

How can I put this politely...

When that 1.2 hrs of flying is the most intense/fun/challenging 1.2 hrs that you have ever spent in your life, it more than makes up for any BS you have to put up with the rest of the time.

There are billions of people in the world that would pay millions of dollars (if they had it) to go do what I get to do every day - and I get paid for it!

I'll let everyone elses' comments stand on the commitment/non-flying duties/family issues, because they're all true. But my point is this: there is NOTHING else in the world to compare with flying a fighter. Period.

Best post ever... (maybe)

What you fail to mention (tankerdriver that is) is that 1.2 I'm doing something from the wheels hitting the well to shutting down. Take off, join up, don't suck as a wingman (always a hard job and 9000 ways to be bad at it), get the hop done (and well), be a good wingman some more, look good in the break, be on my numbers in the pattern, fly some great passes to the carrier box before my gas is up... and all the while doing everything as perfect as possible because in the end I'm my own worst critic. There's never 3-4 hours droning along at altitude unless you're going somewhere. That 1.2 hours is HARD f'ing work, and it's fun/challenging/rewarding/hard/etc. every second of the way.
Don't let this turn into a fighters vs. heavies thread, I've got several friends that fly tankers (and other things) and everyone loves what they do. Hey not everything is for everyone... but for me the first time I was in a 4 plane division with 3 other Hornets, coming from a civi background... thats something I'll always remember. Might seem stupid, but you see pictures of crap like that all the time, wondering how cool that would be (at least I always did). I'm here to tell you pointy nose grey jets is where its at (and landing on the boat). It's extremely hard work, and very humbeling, and every now and then you'll show your ass and feel like a moron, but there is also the feeling of plugging the afterburners or raging around at 7 g's just because you can... going from 5K feet to 30K feet in a matter of seconds, having a hop go JUST how you planned it, and not missing a beat along the way, 200' and 400 knots up a canyon, (and a million other indescribable experiences) it's awesome. Let's not forget the people you work with are also some of the greatest you'll have the chance of being around and become lifelong friends with. I seriously don't consider my job "work." I've never felt like I had a "job" and I've never wanted to call in sick because it sucks. Don't get me wrong, come Friday afternoon, I'm def ready for the weekend and a beer at the O'Club. But by Sunday evening I'm ready to get back at it and try to make it the best week ever.

I agree with Mongoose69. There is no comparison. Eating a box lunch on your way home from the AR track isn't quite the same as having snot trickle down your throat in a high-G turn, trying to keep sight.

Don't get me wrong, SAR bubbas and Tanker drivers don't pay for beer if I'm in the bar too, but there is nothing...NOTHING like flying a fighter.

Craning your neck around, trying to keep/get sight in a 6.5 G turn after the merge, mask pulling down, sweat running, feeling the fangs come out, puts a smile on my face just thinking about it.

Like several others have said... no one here can really tell you your chances. You'll never know if you don't apply. And don't limit yourself to just the USAF. There's also fighter (better ) flying to be had in the Navy and USMC.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

. And don't limit yourself to just the USAF. There's also fighter (better ) flying to be had in the Navy and USMC.

Sig ... the kid said he was HETEROSEXUAL! ... not into that 5000 man love boat you all float around on!!

Definitely go USAF ... if nothing else, our Q's are nicer!

BBB

 

[stonewall]

I agree with all that's been said. Tankerdriver is a rational guy most of the time, but he has a one-ton chip on his shoulder over his tanker combat time. His numerous posts bear that out.

As a side note...nothing tactical, but my TIK-RIC leg two days ago at FL 270 was at 690 KTS groundspeed. That's over 12 miles/minute. Is that fast? Yes, that's fast.

 

[pilotyip]

Expand your search; go to every service recruiter. USCG, Army, USN, USMC, Guard, cover every base. Then make a decision on what you feel is the best offer. I will guarantee whichever route you go; it will be a fantastic experience. I wanted to fly Patrol planes and see the world, I got P-3's out of training and think it is the most exciting airplane in the world, faster than many jets down on the water.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Sig ... the kid said he was HETEROSEXUAL! ... not into that 5000 man love boat you all float around on!!

Definitely go USAF ... if nothing else, our Q's are nicer!

BBB

Funny, the F-15 guys at Kadena indicate there might be a history of non-heterosexual activity amongst the "Wings Of Lead" club.

My recommendation: Marines! "Where Men Are Men...And So Are Women!"

 

[FlyingSkip]

Absolutely, Razor! I married one, and she looked good, and felt good, and it was always nice to be able to tell people who didn't know us well that she was the best shot with an M-60 that I ever saw---OOOrah!

Of course, now we're divorced so she looks like crap, somebody else feels her (Thank God!) and she couldn't shoot a barn from the inside out---but maybe I'm a little biased...

As far as the big subject---keep your eyes open, talk to as many people as you can and realize that your obligation is a lot more about SERVICE and not so very much about flying. Good luck!

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Seeing the gentle ribbing between the services here reminded me of something. I was just talking to an old squadron buddy I hadn't heard from in years. After laughing about old times we both lamented that we really missed the camaraderie of the military. It's no where near the same working for the airlines. Just another aspect to a military background that I haven't seen mentioned. There are intangibles in life that sometimes eclipse the quickest path to the captain seat. To each his own.

BBB

 

[pilotyip]

Oh my Gad, I agree with BBB, I always look forward to going to squadron reunions. That type of camaraderie is something that is hard to find other places and reason I look back so fondly on my military flying.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Fighter pilots think everybody wants to do what they do, in reality, I'd like to do what they do for a day or two, then go back to crew resting all over the world and nailing ladies of every race, creed, and origin! hahaha!

 

[SIG600]

Fighter pilots think everybody wants to do what they do, in reality, I'd like to do what they do for a day or two, then go back to crew resting all over the world and nailing ladies of every race, creed, and origin! hahaha!

Those "ladies" may not be....

 

[Mouth]

You can get a contract to go to flight school as a Marine officer. Look up an officer recruiter, known as an officer selection officer. Most large cities have them. If you have a 4 year degree, 20/30 vision correctable to 20/20, you will be in there with out any problem. You will have to take a test, but there's a practice book at any major bookstore. If the first guy says he doesn't have any air contracts left go to someone else or ask him how many he will have next fiscal year and tell him that you'd be willing to wait until Oct 1st to sign up. You will have to go to OCS for 10 weeks then to another school called The Basic School for six months, then straight to P'Cola for flight training.

That was my route, I've been in the Marine Corps for 9 years now... flew Harriers and currently instruct advanced jet training for the Navy and Marine Corps down in Kingsville, TX.


Bottom line--- there are pros and cons to all of the sevices and all of the platforms, only you can do the research and do what you think you'd enjoy the most.... my opinion is you'll have the rest of your life to fly "heavies" if you decide to get out.... you'll never get to land on a ship, hit a tanker for some gas and blow stuff up in any civilian flying job, let alone know what it's like to hover a jet.... Just my opinion...

Mouth

 

[tomgoodman]

"My plane is better than your plane"

Overheard "happy hour" conversation at Edwards:

Lt Col: "Ah, you can't pay attention to what XXX says---he's a "bomber" guy."

Col: "Now just a minute! I've got a couple thousand hours of multiengine time myself."

Lt Col: "Welll....I guess that's OK....as long as you didn't ENJOY it!"