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Back to the first post.... Free lunch and 50 cent sodas sounds like a hell of a deal. I wonder if it is a boxed lunch though. Those suck. Maybe the drive everyone to Mcdonalds everyday and pay for it that would be cool. Do you think they have Dr Pepper in the 50 cent soda machine if they do then I am faxing my resume right away.
- Fat Kid
 
j32

Its ok J32, you can't help it, all the rage, that empty feeling inside. Its not your fault people ask questions and you can't simply answer. I blame public schools. I'm Not a fan of hojets. Just getting different views on the subject of the alter ego creation.


-Don't mind me.... I'll be over here..... kicking the cat!!
 
Parrot_Head_Fly said:
Its ok J32, you can't help it, all the rage, that empty feeling inside. Its not your fault people ask questions and you can't simply answer. I blame public schools. I'm Not a fan of hojets. Just getting different views on the subject of the alter ego creation.


-Don't mind me.... I'll be over here..... kicking the cat!!

I'll bring another cat. It'll be a party.

You can't write a contract with a company that doesn't exist. If the contract was with TranStates Holdings, Hulas would just create Transtates Holdings, Holdings... INC. And then scab out Hojets anyways.
 
It is all understandable, Pilots, TSA types in general our fustrated about this whole situation and need something or someone ie Gojet pilot to release their fustrations on. Unfortunatly, its going a little overboard. How much influence do you guys / gal think that you have?. I especially like that "REN" person " NAMES any NAMES YET" . she or he like most people want to ACT now dammit!!. What you should be focusing on those Overpaid Alpa lawyers or who ever drew up your CBA and march to their homes torches a flamming. Seriously do you think some company , any company in this day in age are going to have CRJ700 sitting idle on a ramp with no pilots to fly them?. I wish you luck in your greivence, maybe you will be victorous, possibly not. Do you not think TSA management did not for see a fight over this and thought out a game plan?. obviously , to their understanding, you have no scope.I do not think it is fair to lash out at the pilot group, Although typical, this is your only option at this point. Just look at some of these posts,"bashing pilot's faces to bloody pulp", restrain yourselves, or your emotions will be your own undoing.
 
GEORGE DUBYA said:
Back to the first post.... Free lunch and 50 cent sodas sounds like a hell of a deal. I wonder if it is a boxed lunch though. Those suck. Maybe the drive everyone to Mcdonalds everyday and pay for it that would be cool. Do you think they have Dr Pepper in the 50 cent soda machine if they do then I am faxing my resume right away.
- Fat Kid

Box lunch?


AF :cool:
 
yeah boxed lunches. Inmates on work details and Navy people get them when the galley closes. basically it is a ham and cheese sanwich and a milk in a box the box tastes better,
 
windycityflyer said:
Seriously do you think some company , any company in this day in age are going to have CRJ700 sitting idle on a ramp with no pilots to fly them?.I do not think it is fair to lash out at the pilot group, Although typical, this is your only option at this point. Just look at some of these posts,"bashing pilot's faces to bloody pulp", restrain yourselves, or your emotions will be your own undoing.

WCF,
Yes it happened to freedumb did it not? Well Scope helped too.
I think it's perfectly fare to lash out at the scum sucking dipwads who Apply and go to work there, it can't be because of a lack of jobs right now. And I know they aren't going there because first year pay is better than Mesaba and 2nd year pay is better than Comair.
SO why are they going? they suck as pilots, they got fired from another 121 operator, they like screwing over other pilots, they want a shinney(sp) new jet to play with, they can't pass a 121 checkride so they figure if they go there Heck they got to let'em in. Any more out there?

Jobear
 
I actually heard the pilots at GoJets got their longevity from previous employers. some of the pilots are already on 5-6 year pay. 65/hr
 
I feel I must point out that since GoJets is (well, will be) a newly minted certificate, there won't be any check airmen that can administer type rides for some time. This means ALL type rides will be administed by an ACTUAL fed, not a forgiving and understanding company fed-designee.



jobear said:
WCF,
SO why are they going? they suck as pilots, they got fired from another 121 operator, . . . they can't pass a 121 checkride so they figure if they go there Heck they got to let'em in. Any more out there?

Jobear
 
FreedomAList said:
I feel I must point out that since GoJets is (well, will be) a newly minted certificate, there won't be any check airmen that can administer type rides for some time. This means ALL type rides will be administed by an ACTUAL fed, not a forgiving and understanding company fed-designee.

So they won't be flying anytime soon then RIGHT? And how many feds can actually give a type ride in the 900? They can have a check airman if you can find one half-azzed pilot out of the lot.

**Mods I'm sorry for the wording but this one needed it**
Standing by for the week in holding

Jobear
 
those GJ guys are...

Those SOBs at G.J. are actually flying better jets for more money than most regional pilots out there. How dare they bring down the industry like that!! Can you believe guys are actually leaving their turbo-prop, on-call, jobs with number 400 number seniority to fly brand new CRJ's from the factory...idiots!!

Learn the facts: GJ pilots are the 2nd-highest paid CRJ-700 pilots in the country. Their CRJs aren't flying ANY routes previously flown by TSA. TSA pilots were offered positions with GJ 3 TIMES an TURNED IT DOWN!!! If you screw yourself...hate yourself!!! So TSA is furloughing. Sorry about your misfortune...I hear GJ is hiring. Don't be mad at GJ pilots because ALPA is running your career.

GJ pilots will not deny jumpseat to ANY qualified pilot. GJ respects the effort all pilots have put into their careers.
 
usac1 said:
Those SOBs at G.J. are actually flying better jets for more money than most regional pilots out there. How dare they bring down the industry like that!! Can you believe guys are actually leaving their turbo-prop, on-call, jobs with number 400 number seniority to fly brand new CRJ's from the factory...idiots!!

Learn the facts: GJ pilots are the 2nd-highest paid CRJ-700 pilots in the country. Their CRJs aren't flying ANY routes previously flown by TSA. TSA pilots were offered positions with GJ 3 TIMES an TURNED IT DOWN!!! If you screw yourself...hate yourself!!! So TSA is furloughing. Sorry about your misfortune...I hear GJ is hiring. Don't be mad at GJ pilots because ALPA is running your career.

GJ pilots will not deny jumpseat to ANY qualified pilot. GJ respects the effort all pilots have put into their careers.

You got numbers to back up that claim? Post them magic numbers you speak of.
 
Last edited:
pay is block only, tsa gets block or better. So really, they are making less money than a erj145 guy at TSA which is a little below industry average for 50 seat jets.

5 to 6 year pay at $65 per hour? Wow.....
 
Hope all you HoJets pilots realize none of your pay arguments matter. The only difference between you and a scab is opportunity.
 
usac1 said:
GJ pilots will not deny jumpseat to ANY qualified pilot. GJ respects the effort all pilots have put into their careers.

Thats nice. And I happen to agree with you. But . . ..

You might rethink that after you get denied the jumpseat 3 or 4 times in a row by the same carrier . . ..

Funny how when they want YOUR jumpseat, they're your best friend.
 
synchoff said:
Thats nice. And I happen to agree with you. But . . ..

You might rethink that after you get denied the jumpseat 3 or 4 times in a row by the same carrier . . ..

Funny how when they want YOUR jumpseat, they're your best friend.


I will Pay for a hotel before I Jump with those scumbags.
 
anyone know what type of sch. Go Jits fly.. Days off and stuff like that...also how many jets they plan on getting... im not going to apply I just wanna see what type of operation they are going to be w/ in a year. i hope they dont grow to be bigger than TSA

Also is there a big problem with FA talking crap about Go Jits FA saying they are scabs??
 
BOHICAgain said:
anyone know what type of sch. Go Jits fly.. Days off and stuff like that...also how many jets they plan on getting... im not going to apply I just wanna see what type of operation they are going to be w/ in a year.

Quick hiring Captians. These detials from another post:

Currently operating as United Express with 3 CRJ-700's, 6 by the end of OCT, and 10 by Jan 2006. ALPA just wants them to be ALPA to get their 2%. Currently assigned to Local 618 with the IBT:
http://www.teamster.org/divisions/airline/airlineorganizing.htm
http://www.teamsterslocal618.org/news-and-events.html

ALPA has filed a single carrier petition, so whether it be the IBT or ALPA, they will be union. If ALPA wins single carrier, “high unlikely” in ALPA's own words, GJ would still have its own MEC, SEN LIST, and CBA.

Currently 85 pilots. 20 more NOV and DEC. The TSA pilot's had their 3rd opportunity to control the GJ flying, with an LOA, that they voted down 2 weeks ago. The company has said there will be no more offers and began to hire again. More TSA pilots are coming over with each class. They will hire 20 per month for till 1st quarter. They have options on 40 more CRJ 700/900's

Background of the pilots is wide, mostly high time, people that left other regionals (ASA, AE, SKYWAYS, ACA, CorpEX), furloughed Major Pilots, some freight, retired MIL, very very wide backgrounds, but mostly prior 121 background. Several in the 1st 2 classes have been hired already at other ALPA carries. (1 CAL and 2 to World Airways).

Most the bad mouth on here is from TSA guys. Other is from pissed off AirWis guys. Why the AirWI guys are angry at GJ I don't know? Most of AirWI flying has NOT been lost to GJ but to MESA and SKYWEST(Non-Union). I guess ALPA has made an easy target out of GJ, but MESA and SKYWEST have hurt AirWI MUCH MUCH MORE. GJ just started to flying into O’Hare this month. MESA and SKYWEST have been there for months. GJ is paid more the MESA and SKYWEST.

AirWI is just trying to smooth things over with TSA because AirWI is taking all the TSA RIC and CLT flying. TSA is parking J41 and displaceing pilots. So AirWI is hurting TSA more than GJ.

Anyway, they will have about 100+ pilots at years end, and if they take their other 40 options they will add about 400+ more. More info: http://g*jetairlines.com You will have to replace the * with an o.
 
Sunday, October 16, 2005


This is a story of courage and diligence. The courage to take a stand, and the diligence to see it through.

There was once a company in the regional airline industry that commanded the seventh largest US domestic airline carrier position. That company started in the early eighties and went through several name transitions to end up with Trans States Airlines (TSA) as it is known today. The airline made its mark in the industry as a company that code shared, or provided feeder service, with major airlines to fill a niche that seemed to be a growing trend by the majors in an attempt to defray the costs of an inefficient and outdated hub and spoke business model. An additional benefit to the major airlines by code sharing with smaller carriers was the more cost effective smaller jets that could be scheduled more frequently, thereby allowing more travelers access to more cities at a fraction of the cost that it took to fly larger airplanes fewer times a day.

Even labor was cheaper. In this industry you get "paid for what you push", and the regional carriers were pushing nothing larger than fifty seaters instead of the two hundred and fifty seaters that the majors still had in inventory. Competition for code share agreements became tighter and wages for pilots and crew began to decline as labor is commonly the only mallable factor that allows a regional carrier to compete with other regional carriers in the same class.

TSA, a private company owned by a single individual, had been successful through its resourcefulness in tough times to capture opportunity that larger public companies found difficult to move on because of the very nature of their corporate structure. Uninhibited by investors or shareholders, TSA could make decisions quickly to take advantage of new market opportunities before other companies could make up their mind. The strategy worked, but the market was about to change to follow a new trend that TSA, through all of its resourcefulness, would not legally be able to partake. Researching its code share agreements with other airlines, particularly American, TSA was limited by Union clauses that limited it to flying jet aircraft to fifty seats or less. This limitation allowed TSA to help American grow its American Connection business model to a substantial size, which in turn brought TSA into the jet market almost doubling its aircraft inventory. What the industry didn't know was that this market would saturate very quickly, forcing the majors to start looking at larger aircraft once again. The fifty seat jets were just not large enough nor profitable enough to meet industry demand.

An overhaul of the major airlines existing aircraft fleet was simply too expensive, especially with the profit losses from poor business models and looming bankruptcies that plagued the industry. If that were possible, the majors would not need the regionals. New code share agreements for larger equipment, primarily the seventy to one hundred seat range, would be an immediate answer to the problem. United Airlines was among the first to announce that it would code share all of its domestic route structure to the regionals. Most regional airlines were making money and had the capital to invest in new aircraft, but were locked out by scope clauses in their contracts and could not accept these new opportunities to fly larger aircraft in code share agreements with the majors. TSA was among them.

Imagine the feeling of surviving decades just to be shut out at the very moment it seemed the market was finally opening up to the underdogs. There had to be a way. Something had to change.

It was then that the idea to start a parent company came into play for TSA, and that is when Trans States Holdings (TSH) was born. Creating a parent company allowed for the pursuit of a completely new certificate, separate from TSA, that would allow the purchase of larger aircraft and the acceptance of the new market opportunities uninhibited by scope clauses or contractual obligations. This process would take some time, but it was the intent of TSH to start immediately to increase their chances of success once everything was in place. They needed to create the new Holding company, staff it, then start the ball rolling on creating a new certificate under TSH. Everything would be controlled by TSH, and TSA would still be able to honor its contractual scope clause agreements with its code share carriers, thus keeping the business that already had.

It was brilliant. Not that this hadn't happened before, but that it would happen quickly enough to be one of only a handful of competitors in this new market. Something that was direly necessary in order to secure the future of TSH, which included TSA. The new certificate would eventually be called ************************* Airlines, LLC. As a separate carrier controlled by TSH, this new company would be the vehicle that all would instill new hope to carry TSH into the future of US domestic air travel. Or would it...

The TSA pilots saw this new sister company as a threat to their very existence, and not at all a savior of their future even though the mjority of the TSA pilot group has an average 75% turn- over rate. Pilots came to TSA to get the coveted FAA Part 121 Pilot In Command (PIC) hours and move on to a major airline, thereby effectively using the airline as a stepping stone to "higher" employment.

Even so, local ALPA union leadership for TSA immediately began a campaign against *************************, and publicly persecuted anyone who "crossed the line" to help start this new company. Demeaning comments and derogatory statements were published on internet lounges, ie. www.tsalounge.com and www.flightinfo.com, and printed on flyers handed out at various airports around the country in an attempt to build an atmosphere of fear for anyone who would dare work at *************************. ************************* employees were quickly labeled "scabs", which is a term used for individuals who cross a picket line during a strike. They were also labeled non-union employees even as they were courted by one of the largest unions in the country, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. They were accused of helping in the "race to the bottom" by accepting poor working conditions and low pay even though a union contract was in negotiation with industry average or better figures. Blacklists were created by TSA pilots as a scare tactic against new hires at ************************* in an attempt to make them quit or defamate their character. Propaganda websites were created to elevate the level of awareness TSA pilots believed the industry should know, ALPA filed lawsuits and Alter-Ego grievances stating ************************* as a "pariah" alter-ego in the industry and that it was illegally being created to circumvent TSA and ALPA. Skywest Airlines, a true non-union carrier who would also be a major competitor in this new market setting the industry standard on the low side, did not even get this kind of treatment directed against its company or pilots.

The realization that this was an internal issue that stemmed from TSA and TSA alone, was quickly coming to light. Nobody else in the industry seemed to care what was happening at TSA. Surveys of most industry professionals did not even know ************************* existed. ALPA National leadership even stood down when it was finally determined that ************************* was not illegally created, and tried to pursue ways to make ************************* ALPA members instead. It still remains a mystery how that was supposed to help the TSA pilots when the ************************* pilots, under ALPA or Teamsters, would remain a separate company with a separate seniority list under a separate collective bargaining agreement. ALPA, with a history of corruption at the local level, was the last union the ************************* pilots wanted. The Teamsters would give them a fresh new start. The propaganda grew into such elaborate and elastic lies, that it became evident no amount of retort would make a difference. It would only help to muddy the waters that were already hard to interpret. The public would just have to find out for themselves. A little research would bring the truth to light...

continued on next post................
 
There was no strike. There was no picket line. There was only animosity and jealousy from the TSA pilots over this new market opportunity that would save TSH, thus saving TSA itself. But ************************* could not be a part of TSA. It had to be its own entity. The underlying truth was that ************************* needed to be created, and could not be affiliated with TSA in order for the legalities to work. TSA was not allowed by contractual obligation to American to fly these new industry contracts because they required larger jets. No jobs were stolen. Jobs were created. TSA pilots had several opportunities to be a part of the exciting opportunity that ************************* had to offer. In an extension of loyalty, pilots were even offered their longevity at TSA up to five years to fly for *************************. After all, TSH owned both companies, and it had the authority to issue such an offer. Although some had much more time than five years at TSA, payscales for the larger aircraft at ************************* would still put those pilots in a position to make more money, have a longer future and fly larger aircraft than they could at TSA. The plan to secure the future of the airline rested with *************************, and all the TSA pilot group could say now was how dishonorable the company had been.

Machiavelli and Cicero, most noted for their positions on social diplomacy, said it very well. Disputes between honor and security will always be determined by the consideration of necessity. The necessity of honor should come first, the necessity of security usually second, and the necessity of convenience always considered last. Cicero affirms that this order can be changed, however, if the security of the company is at stake. If the position of the company illustrates that the security of its future may be questionable if certain steps are not achieved, then the necessity of security outweighs the necessity of honor, and it is common knowledge that honor can easily be reclaimed through courage and diligence.

Even today, as ************************* grows, it is strengthening TSH and TSA, paving the path to a future that pilots of both companies will benefit. Those who had the courage to accept employment at ************************* and the diligence to see the company through to its final certification for revenue flight should be recognized for having helped create a vehicle that will stabilize the future for all pilots under TSH. Those who stayed at TSA who decided not to take the opportunity at ************************* should appreciate the risks the pilots of ************************* took in the face of failure, adversity and public persecution to create opportunity for all. Great risks are deserving of great rewards. And thus, the story ends.
 
jobear said:
So they won't be flying anytime soon then RIGHT? And how many feds can actually give a type ride in the 900?

LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS.

It's a common type. Type in the aircraft is for "CL-65". (re: CRJ 200/700/900).
 
FlyHIToo said:
But ************************* could not be a part of TSA. It had to be its own entity. The underlying truth was that ************************* needed to be created, and could not be affiliated with TSA in order for the legalities to work.

First of all, they've blured the "seperate company" line so much it's hard to see it at all. Second of all, there was nothing stopping the company from coming to us and saying, hey, we're starting this new certificate to fly 70-seaters and we'd like to sit down and talk with you about working out a single seniority list deal (nothing stopping them from having one list). But they've refused to work with us on this, and no, a single offer of one list for a 4 year contract extension is not a negotiation. So why are they trying to leave us by the curb and work against us instead of with us? Because down the line they're going to use GJ to screw TSA. Hasn't happened yet, but wait til next year when TSA goes into contract negotiations.
 
jjetpilot said:
While you are at it in your research of G o J drop by **************************.com

The long posts before are from TSA mgt trying to fill classes.......they can't and are caught between a rock and a hard place. Thank you to all the pilots that have not interviewed at Hojets. The support is greatly appreciated and this fight is not over by a long shot.

They are haveing no problem geting people to interview and have been able to be selective...

More TSA Pilots have been applying.

That website you talking of to research, is a JOKE. Any website that starts out in the opening line saying....."....crosses the line to a life of misery at G-Jet, is rumored to like little goats. " "rumored to like little goats" there is a credible website for you. Total BS.
 
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usac1 said:
GJ respects the effort all pilots have put into their careers.

I've got to hand it to you; that's actually pretty funny.
 
KingKong2 said:
They are haveing no problem geting people to interview and have been able to be selective...

More TSA Pilots have been applying.

That website you talking of to research, is a JOKE. Any website that starts out in the opening line saying....."....crosses the line to a life of misery at G-Jet, is rumored to like little goats. " "rumored to like little goats" there is a credible website for you. Total BS.

More lies from you Dan, including that long winded b.s. you posted under your new screen name Fly hi whatever. If G0jet is having no problems finding people why are they cold calling pilots from other regionals? You keep coming back to this message board because you are faced with your miserable existence every day and you hope you can change a few minds here with your moronic arguments about black being white and g0jet pilots not being scumbags. Keep up the good work, you and your few supporters are doing a great job on this board proving what low lifes are attracted to g0jet.
 
EMB170Pilot said:
Anyone know of the K.I.S.S. method??

Keep It Simplue Stupid

Was S. Hussein an evil dictator....YES

Did he violate UN sanctions for years........YES

Was he involved in terroism....YES

After 9/11, could we take that chance with a country who supports/harbour terrosim....NO

Did S. Hussein use weapons of mass destruction against his OWN people.....YES


JESUS F'IN CHR!ST..........Some people will never NEVER understand... MOVE TO CANADA TINA FEY Do us all a favor :) Take some Vagasil by the way why don't ya

Next your going to say Zell Miller is a BAD democrat who's old and doesn't know what he's talking about

OK..back to original topic :D

With that attitude why don't you write your congressional leadership and ask them to intervene in Darfu? Oh that's right..... no oil and no contracts to give out to the Bush "Good ole' boy" network. Haliburton anyone?
 
FlyHIToo said:
Even today, as ************************* grows, it is strengthening TSH and TSA, paving the path to a future that pilots of both companies will benefit. Those who had the courage to accept employment at ************************* and the diligence to see the company through to its final certification for revenue flight should be recognized for having helped create a vehicle that will stabilize the future for all pilots under TSH. Those who stayed at TSA who decided not to take the opportunity at ************************* should appreciate the risks the pilots of ************************* took in the face of failure, adversity and public persecution to create opportunity for all. Great risks are deserving of great rewards. And thus, the story ends.

The stupidity of humanity in general never ceases to amaze me. I'm speechless................
 
FlyHIToo said:
Most the bad mouth on here is from TSA guys. Other is from pissed off AirWis guys. Why the AirWI guys are angry at GJ I don't know? Most of AirWI flying has NOT been lost to GJ but to MESA and SKYWEST(Non-Union). I guess ALPA has made an easy target out of GJ, but MESA and SKYWEST have hurt AirWI MUCH MUCH MORE. GJ just started to flying into O’Hare this month. MESA and SKYWEST have been there for months. GJ is paid more the MESA and SKYWEST.

AirWI is just trying to smooth things over with TSA because AirWI is taking all the TSA RIC and CLT flying. TSA is parking J41 and displaceing pilots. So AirWI is hurting TSA more than GJ.

LOL. That is the biggest load of crap Ive read on this forum yet. You remind me of that IRAQI Spokesman at the beginning of the war. "We are winning this war, there are no Americans in Baghdad, etc..

We are pissed off at GJ because they set the standard for union busting. Good luck with your future.
 

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