GM & Ford Flight Departments 86'd

[Gulfstream 200]

It's funny, I don't remember hearing anything about the jets belonging to "BIG BANKS" when they rolled into D.C. to accept their Bailout checks from Uncle Sugar. A bit ironic, don't you think?

Believe it or not, I know that at least two of the "big banks that rolled into DC" took the airlines that day - and sometimes do as DC is so close.

 

[BoilerUP]

GM doesn't need the most expensive Gulfstreams to fly around the domestic US. 100's of millions for planes, thats "unnecessary."

You do know that General Motors is a global corporation with manufacturing facilities in 35 countries and an annual revenue ($166.1B) that eclipses Citigroup ($27.41B), Wells Fargo ($32.46B), and Bank of America ($47.49B) combined, right???

Their full and partial holdings portfolio includes (among other things) the brands Holden in Australia, Opel in Europe, Daewoo in Korea, and the most popular automobiles sold in China...Buick. Locations of their manufacturing plants include the US, Canada, Mexico, Sweden, Poland, South Africa, Columbia, and others I'm too lazy to spend more time researching.

Yeah, a large cabin international bizjet is totally unnecessary for a company like that...

 

[semperfido]

Believe it or not, I know that at least two of the "big banks that rolled into DC" took the airlines that day - and sometimes do as DC is so close.

That is interesting, but I don't think JPM shutting down their Flt Ops and they took 55 Bill of taxpayer money. That is what I thought had a bit of irony. No uproar about that.

 

[waka]

I doubt production engineers use the corp jets....

I wouldn't be so sure about that...

All right... what do you got?

Ford has (had) 2 or 3 flights a week between DTW and SDF with a Fokker 70, often with production engineers.

 

[Raskal]

...GM doesn't need the most expensive Gulfstreams to fly around the domestic US. 100's of millions for planes, thats "uneccassary." The person I fly for has a foreign based company and MUST fly around the globe constantly, and only in one Gulfstream V.



Easy to explain this one.....CEO's make too much money. So Hybrids are just fine for them, they just don't think so. I bet they wished they took those Hybrids when they flew to Washington to ask for BILLIONS of our dollars...

The first part of your post is simply nowhere near the reality of GM's flight ops. International flying is an enormous part of what that department does/did. Their aircraft flew constantly and, from what I hear from the pilots I know, international was a majority of the G550s' loads. As someone else said, remember, GM is still the largest automaker on the planet, Toyota is still #2 with VW at #3. They sell more cars outside the US with huge ops in China, Australia and Europe. I would think that they have more justification for owning the G's than a very large majority of the typical owners.

As for the second part regarding the hybrids, I can only shake my head. As a corp pilot yourself you should know better than anyone the real reasons for the use of these aircraft, I can only conclude you're just trying to stir the pot for entertainment.

 

[xshuttlefa]

Unfortunately, this is all a PR move. Those not involved in aviation or who don't understand how upper level execs at big corporations work see these aircraft as an extravagence, not a necessity.

Two years ago, there was a large meeting of Verizon upper management and they all flew in to Pittsburgh. Must have been at least 5 Hawkers (memory fuzzy, could have been Challengers) at the FBO at my local field for 3 days straight, all registered to Verizon. Anyone REALLY happy with their cell phone or landline and what they pay for it?

Cars, like many businesses, are global products. There are parts from China in a US made Honda same as a Mexican made Ford or Canadian built Dodge. As well as parts from suppliers in the US, Canada, Poland, Germany,etc.

Now add in the foreign operations of Ford and GM, plus the foreign companies they own a portion of.The logistics of having to move top level people by any means other than corporate aircraft is just absurd.

But I'm preaching to the choir here. All the average person sees ( from the media), is " Companies in Danger of Failing", "Rick Wagoner made $$$$$ while you made 1/68th of that" and had THE NERVE to fly to Washington in a big private jet to ask for money, being fanned by beautiful women and drinking ambrosia. Combine that image with the fumbling of the execs to explain what they will do to change, not good.

Is something wrong with the manufacturers in Detroit? You bet. When GM and Toyota hold the same market share (approx. 20%) yet Toyota does it through 3 brands (Toyota, Lexus,Scion) and 1500 dealers while it takes GM 7 brands and 7000 dealers, there's a problem. Anyone ever hear of the UAW Job Bank? If ALPA had the same bargaining power as the UAW...well, maybe not the best example right now.

The UAW has held the cards for a long time over the Big Three and the Big Three agreed to pay for what the UAW wanted. Combine that with: an over-reliance on the past 10 years on high profit light trucks and SUVs (while neglecting the rest of the product line to the point of mediocracy at best) while the foreign companies kept all their products current throughout product line. It's no wonder we are at this point.


Apparently, it's time for the US domestic auto industry to get the same shake-up the domestic airline industry got, initially when giants like Eastern and Pan Am disappeared (That could never happen...) Couldn't happen at a worse time though and of course, it happened because it's a really bad time.

I'd buy a car tommorrow... if I had a job to pay for it. It probably wouldn't be domestic though.. D'oh!!

 

[BoilerUP]

Is something wrong with the manufacturers in Detroit? You bet. When GM and Toyota hold the same market share (approx. 20%) yet Toyota does it through 3 brands (Toyota, Lexus,Scion) and 1500 dealers while it takes GM 7 brands and 7000 dealers, there's a problem. Anyone ever hear of the UAW Job Bank? If ALPA had the same bargaining power as the UAW...well, maybe not the best example right now.

CNBC: UAW to Halt 'Jobs Bank'

 

[xshuttlefa]

That is interesting, but I don't think JPM shutting down their Flt Ops and they took 55 Bill of taxpayer money. That is what I thought had a bit of irony. No uproar about that.

Of course, because banks are banks. CARS are CARS. Banks are bought, sold,merged all the time and most of the time it's seamless. People see the 55 billion for JPM as keeping their money safe, what's left of it. Outrageous, sure. But necessary. And it is to some extent.

People see GM getting bailed out in the form of that POS 1995 Oldsmobile they had that was in the shop all the time and really went bad after the warranty was up. They see it in the Chrysler minivan that had three transmissions in it in 60k miles. They see it in the Ford Expedition they bought when gas was cheap and 12mpg was awful but doable. Then when gas went to $4.00+/gal., they went back to the Ford dealer to buy something more efficient and found they had nothing comparable in size but more efficient to sell and they owed much more then their trade was worth.

Cars are emotional, many of us interact more with our cars then with our money. For some the car takes ALL of the money, so who cares about investing?

 

[xshuttlefa]

CNBC: UAW to Halt 'Jobs Bank'

Yes, I know they are going to cut it. But if the current situation wasn't happening, it'd still be going strong.

My point was that what other occupation has or was ever able to negotiate something like that? And keep it going into the 21st century.

 

[BoilerUP]

My point was that what other occupation has or was ever able to negotiate something like that? And keep it going into the 21st century.

I dunno, not many?

Negotiation does involve two parties, though...